Berger bullet performance

[Mxracer532]

Just curious who all has had this problem. Reason I ask is a good friend and guide of mine and his buddy (x military sniper) both had problems a week or 2 ago.

1 bull elk shot with a 300 Win & 180gn VLD took 7 shots to kill at 742 yards. 1 bullet was just infront of the shoulder in the base of the neck and if hardly penetrated the hide and only bruised the meat. The bullet was sideways and looked like it was hit on the side with a hammer. Other 7 shots ranged from 2 high lung, 1 guts and last through the shoulder after watching it for over an hr.

Now the X Sniper black bear alitte over 200 yards and 6.5 Creedmoor shooting 140gn VLD, busted right through the 1 shoulder for sure dropped immediately only to get back up and run down to a drainage and go up the drainage for 1.5 miles according to gps. No blood no nothing. Iam a HUGE Berger fan but these issues have me concerned.

 

[Pdvdh]

1 bull elk shot with a 300 Win & 180gn VLD took 7 shots to kill at 742 yards. 1 bullet was just infront of the shoulder in the base of the neck and if hardly penetrated the hide and only bruised the meat. The bullet was sideways and looked like it was hit on the side with a hammer.

Was the bull standing in open terrain, or could this bullet have struck brush prior to entering the base of the neck?

Other 7 shots ranged from 2 high lung, 1 guts and last through the shoulder after watching it for over an hr.

Did the 2 high lung shots expand? In general, did the rest of the VLDs expand within the bull?

 

[Pdvdh]

Now the X Sniper black bear alitte over 200 yards and 6.5 Creedmoor shooting 140gn VLD, busted right through the 1 shoulder for sure dropped immediately only to get back up and run down to a drainage and go up the drainage for 1.5 miles according to gps. No blood no nothing. I am a HUGE Berger fan but these issues have me concerned.

It's hard to say with confidence on an animal that wasn't recovered, exactly where the animal was hit, and how the bullet performed...

 

[Broz]

I can not say what the problem was but we all know a 180 anything placed well will kill an elk. That said I would strongly recommend loading at least a 210 or better yet a 215 Berger for what they are doing with the 300 win and the distance they shot the bull. My 300 win just went 24 and 0 for one shot cold bore kills on big game, many of these elk, with the 215's 200 yards to 1285. Have not tracked one.

Jeff

 

[MudRunner2005]

I had one fail to open, but all the factors for it NOT to open were perfect...

Which were, close-range shot (225 yards), 3,115 fps MV, and it never hit anything solid...

HOWEVER, it did go straight through the heart, and the doe flopped over where it stood, and never moved again. So, I was happy with the end result, even though the bullet didn't expand.

Like I have been saying for years, whether or not the bullet expands isn't necessarily as important as shot-placement.

I still love Berger bullets, and won't bad-mouth them over a one-time fluke. I think they still produce an excellent product, and will continue to use them with complete confidence.

 

[Mxracer532]

Was the bull standing in open terrain, or could this bullet have struck brush prior to entering the base of the neck?



Did the 2 high lung shots expand? In general, did the rest of the VLDs expand within the bull?

Standing in the open, buddy was watching and seeing all impacts with his spotting scope. Not 10p% sure on all of them but the shoulder shot all they found were fragments of the bullet.

The bear he knows for sure it broke one shoulder, pretty sure it was the offside. Being it was a sniper and under 300 yards im 99% sure he made a good shot.

He shot a muley on the same trip at over 500 and bang flop.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

Im confused was the bear recovered?

 

[bigngreen]

Somethings wrong right out of the gate with #1, there is no way a bullet should be found just under the onside hide with no penetrate flat against the meat, that's not a bullet failure but there is a failure some where in the system for sure!!!

 

[wbm]

Somethings wrong right out of the gate

I'll say. And it ain't the Berger bullet!

 

[Canadian Bushman]

Im always skeptical of third person stories but some of us have been noted as being to pro-berger and not giving the op a chance to explain the situation. Im gonna listen here and try to be neutral, but i think there are still some details that need clarification.

A 180gn bullet barely penetrating the hide of an elk is very strange for any make of bullet, is there any chance this could of been a deflection into the area where the bullet was found?

I think a more complete recollection of the actual hits on the elk could help us determine the effect the bullets could of had.

Was the bear recovered?
So far we know he was shot in the shoulder at 300 yds, which in turn broke the offside shoulder, and ran 1.5 miles with no blood trail.

What was the mule deer shot with?

Id like to know a little more about the MV of the rifle and some ballpark enviromentals so i can estimate the speed and energy the bullet impacted with.

As usual with these threads, any pictures of wounds or recovered bullets are always helpful.

 

[Mxracer532]

Im always skeptical of third person stories but some of us have been noted as being to pro-berger and not giving the op a chance to explain the situation. Im gonna listen here and try to be neutral, but i think there are still some details that need clarification.

A 180gn bullet barely penetrating the hide of an elk is very strange for any make of bullet, is there any chance this could of been a deflection into the area where the bullet was found?

I think a more complete recollection of the actual hits on the elk could help us determine the effect the bullets could of had.

Was the bear recovered?
So far we know he was shot in the shoulder at 300 yds, which in turn broke the offside shoulder, and ran 1.5 miles with no blood trail.

What was the mule deer shot with?

Id like to know a little more about the MV of the rifle and some ballpark enviromentals so i can estimate the speed and energy the bullet impacted with.

As usual with these threads, any pictures of wounds or recovered bullets are always helpful.

I understand questioning the 3rd party deal, BUT not for me. I know and trust the guy who seen it 1st hand.

The bear and deer were shot with the Creedmoor. 140gn bullet 2850fps. I dont know details of the MV ect of the 300win as my buddy was just the guide. I know the 300 was setup tho and guy was using a BR7 rangefinder and this bull was his 35th bull so he was no rookie. I will see if my buddy has pics of wounds and bullets.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Without the twist rate MV data I am inclined to opine that there is a bullet stability issue not detected at the rifle range.

Things like maring the bullet on fast cycling while hunting vs slow when at the range.
Marginal stability not tested at the hunting distance but fine closer.

Basically my opinion is being pushed toward key holing. I'm probably full of something here but that's what is seems like with such limited data.

 

[Mxracer532]

Without the twist rate MV data I am inclined to opine that there is a bullet stability issue not detected at the rifle range.

Things like maring the bullet on fast cycling while hunting vs slow when at the range.
Marginal stability not tested at the hunting distance but fine closer.

Basically my opinion is being pushed toward key holing. I'm probably full of something here but that's what is seems like with such limited data.

Im pretty positive that a 180gn bullet in a 300win is probably no problem in any 300. Now a 210gn maybe a diff story. Also I would imagine a seasoned hunter with 26 bull elk kills and using a $1600 range finder probably has checked all that. BUT I dont know him personally.

 

[MMERSS]

Without the twist rate MV data I am inclined to opine that there is a bullet stability issue not detected at the rifle range.

Things like maring the bullet on fast cycling while hunting vs slow when at the range.
Marginal stability not tested at the hunting distance but fine closer.

Basically my opinion is being pushed toward key holing. I'm probably full of something here but that's what is seems like with such limited data.

The bullets key holing is a possibliity. What is the twist? Was the bullet a 175 or 185 VLD? I'm not aware of a 30 cal 180 VLD.