BC, Muzzle Velocity, Bullet Expansion, Penetration. What counts the most and why?

nralifer

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Interesting, to be sure. Thanks for sharing. What would you call a "large" exit hole?

Not once in my life have I poked a hole through 2 lungs in an animal, with anything, and had it live. Their lungs seem to fill with blood, no matter what... and I've seen quite a lot of splatter along a blood trail from them coughing it out.


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It was the size of a silver dollar
 

fordy

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Many may not realize that some folks in Aus shoot goats like North Americans do gophers and ground hogs.

Invasives are a real problem due to the lack of natural predators.

Perhaps that comparison will make it easier for some to wrap their heads around the sheer numbers.
Thanks handskills
Comparisons are always good to get perspective
We as a nation have tried to eradicate feral animals & failed on the whole now it’s containment or exclusion zones & this is also for some of our native animals & on some animals we have way more problems than we use to

Is this from our red tape & people not understanding balance is needed , the bambi syndrome Or not seeing the opportunity we have with a great resource 🤷‍♂️
I’ve got my thoughts

Not all areas in Aussie are overrun but some areas are rediculous
Cheers
 

nralifer

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It was the size of a silver dollar. Hits in the fiirst half of the lungs closer to the heart are more likely to bleed profusely since t bullet path is closer to the pulmonary artery and it’s early branches. The back half has smaller branches and can bleed less. Hits there can be less rapidly fatal, especially with large exit holes that are not self sealing
 

fordy

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In any animal, the physiology of lung puncture is the same. In the normal state both lungs are “sealed” by this thin membrane known as the visceral pleura. The chest wall is lined by the parietal pleura. The lungs are naturally elastic and tend to shrivel up when out of the chest. Normal breathing involves the diaphragm contracting and displacing downward as well as the muscle between the ribs contracting and displacing upwards, expanding the chest volume and the lungs at the same time. Breathing out is just the opposite with the lung elasticity shrinking the lung as the diaphragm and rib muscles relax. When a bullet perforates the chest wall, both lungs, and exits the far chest wall, BUT DOES NOT MAKE A BIG EXIT HOLE, the pleural lining of both the lungs is perforated creating escape of air into the space between the chest wall and lungs. The natural elasticity of the lungs makes this leak much worse. If the entrance AND exit holes in the chest wall are small, they tend to self seal entrapping the leaked air from the perforated lung to remain trapped in the “pleural space.” With each subsequent breath more air enters the pleural space forcing more collapse of both lungs, and with that less blood pumped by the heart. Remember, the right heart and left heart are separate pumps in series with the blood moving from the right to the left, but going through the lungs first. The right pump is a low pressure pump, thus the collapsing lungs eventually come under enough pressure from the entrapped air in the pleural space such that the low pressure right pump can’t feed enough blood to the high pressure left pump, so the blood output from the left heart stops and the animal loses consciousness and dies.
With a large exit hole the pressure of escaped air in the pleural space is relieved in between breaths allowing blood flow though the lungs and maintining enough left sided heart output to pump blood to the brain to maintain consciousness. A highly aerobic animal like a Wildebeest will have enough reserve of oxygen in its muscles to allow it to run away quickly for some distance. The trick is to make a bullet that will expand enough to damage the lungs severely but not create big exit holes.

Gday nralifer
I should be staying out & back I n my rabbit hole but terminal gets me in
So here goes & see how this goes
You sound like a lot of veterinarians I have worked with ( this hopefully comes across as being respectful)

one thing I’ve found is a exit is the best form across a wide variety of situations for a quicker recovery if we can get that exit
& I mean this with the utmost respect to every one out there as some species are extremely hard to get that exit even with bigger calibers

This is going to be hard for me to describe as penertration paths ( angles ) resistance is never the same But lets just generalise with a perfect broadside & let’s look @ that dollar size exit vrs a non exit vrs a caliber size exit or a fist size exit
& let’s use the the parts of the lobes furthest away from the main pump house

What out of the above gives the quickest likely hood of securing the animal
This is not a loaded question just curious as always trying to learn
Also if you know how much pressure does it involve ( interns of certain calibers / speeds would be good but hard to define i would think ) to create that winding effect where we gasp for air just can’t seem to get enough air effect & pretty much stay where we are or stagger around
& if we have a winding effect where does this fit into the equation with the exits above

also critters in my experience even when hit well can travel a long way even when not adrenaline rushed but it definitely doesn’t help imo & pill design will sort out the weak links

Hope that makes sense & looking forward to your response or others

Cheers
 

nralifer

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Gday nralifer
I should be staying out & back I n my rabbit hole but terminal gets me in
So here goes & see how this goes
You sound like a lot of veterinarians I have worked with ( this hopefully comes across as being respectful)

one thing I’ve found is a exit is the best form across a wide variety of situations for a quicker recovery if we can get that exit
& I mean this with the utmost respect to every one out there as some species are extremely hard to get that exit even with bigger calibers

This is going to be hard for me to describe as penertration paths ( angles ) resistance is never the same But lets just generalise with a perfect broadside & let’s look @ that dollar size exit vrs a non exit vrs a caliber size exit or a fist size exit
& let’s use the the parts of the lobes furthest away from the main pump house

What out of the above gives the quickest likely hood of securing the animal
This is not a loaded question just curious as always trying to learn
Also if you know how much pressure does it involve ( interns of certain calibers / speeds would be good but hard to define i would think ) to create that winding effect where we gasp for air just can’t seem to get enough air effect & pretty much stay where we are or stagger around
& if we have a winding effect where does this fit into the equation with the exits above

also critters in my experience even when hit well can travel a long way even when not adrenaline rushed but it definitely doesn’t help imo & pill design will sort out the weak links

Hope that makes sense & looking forward to your response or others

Cheers
Gday northkill
I’ll let bean post it where it is appropriate if he wouldn’t mind as I have trouble navigating

I’ve had culling contracts in the past some of these were for the human consumption or pet food side also helped a few mates out who are still in the culling industry was a wonderful resource of information for me & money made was a bonus lol as the contacts in Aussie , Africa & New Zealand that I’ve made are now lifelong friendships that I value the most
Also some of these culls are just shoot & let rot which is a shame & even last year we took well over 100 game animals in 10 days in the NT & all were left to rot , only odd head skin & horns recovered ( it’s a long story as why this happens on a regular base )

some of the most emphatic pills I’ve used are no longer made but did move on prior to them being discontinued as they also had some flaws for me oh shock horror I didn’t mention a hammer lol

Today I’m just lucky to have great mates also a property my family purchased solely for the next generation of hunters & the environment is in the 2nd most densely populated area in our state for deer ( actual helicopter grid system counting of numbers for assement of a game management plan was undertaken by our government )
I also have property protection permits for 8 species ( like your depredation permits I guess 🤷‍♂️ ) that I can & do hunt rear round with fairly substantial numbers along with a few other species that don’t need permits to hunt them but really we are culling around 80/90% of the time to try & get balance back in the ecosystem as conservation is a high priority for me along with taking the time with kids as they just light up my life when they hunt & the stories around the campfire are priceless
The Northern Territory in Aussie is one that is just incredible & teams numbers & my mate up there is a gun guide to boot

The numbers we are talking about is hard to fathom in some areas & stay tuned I’ve been researching a little & asking about a few things that may interest you 🤔but a more appropriate thread it will apply in
🤝
Cheers
Really glad to see the conservation effors which result in preservation of habitat and control of invasive species. It’s hunters efforts an money that fuels this, not tree hugging. Keep it up guys, you are doing the environment and the world a great service by adding value to wild places.
 

orkan

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Really glad to see the conservation effors which result in preservation of habitat and control of invasive species. It’s hunters efforts an money that fuels this, not tree hugging. Keep it up guys, you are doing the environment and the world a great service by adding value to wild places.
Am I wrong for wanting my county to be overrun with tens of thousands of goat-sized animals? 🤣



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orkan

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Shooting 600 goats per weekend would be so much fun.

This state doesn't seem to think the invasive ringneck pheasant is a problem. I'd rather have goats wandering around than those stupid things.
 

bigngreen

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Shooting 600 goats per weekend would be so much fun.

This state doesn't seem to think the invasive ringneck pheasant is a problem. I'd rather have goats wandering around than those stupid things.
We have the same thing, we used to have a good population of red fox, I used to trap hundreds a season but the bird guys came in and introduced a strain of parvo that went through and wiped out the fox and they have never recovered, used to be nothing to see a few fox every day now I see on once or twice a year in the headlights.
 

fordy

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aussie
One year they paid a couple of sharpshooters to thin the axis deer herd on Lanai in Hawaii. In one day a guy took down 125 of them.
What a waste!!!

Gday cableasken
Yes definitely a waste
Our state governments in Aussie are all different & this is not my own state but do hunt there although I’m thinking I may just drive through or fly over it as this state has some weird ideas imo so why give them my hard earned money as revenue to fund their F ideas & one in tough times for many , a great protein sourced in its natural environment has no pears

This has just been passed man we live in a weird world & the waste is so stupid

If this is overstepping the rules of the forum please let me know & I’ll remove not that I like to edit
Cheers
 

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bigngreen

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Gday cableasken
Yes definitely a waste
Our state governments in Aussie are all different & this is not my own state but do hunt there although I’m thinking I may just drive through or fly over it as this state has some weird ideas imo so why give them my hard earned money as revenue to fund their F ideas & one in tough times for many , a great protein sourced in its natural environment has no pears

This has just been passed man we live in a weird world & the waste is so stupid

If this is overstepping the rules of the forum please let me know & I’ll remove not that I like to edit
Cheers
It's hard to wrap your mind around that kinda stupid, outlawing sharing meat, I just don't get that one!!
 
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