BC, Muzzle Velocity, Bullet Expansion, Penetration. What counts the most and why?

xsn10s

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I have 2 6mm creedmoors and I'm going to rebarrel my savage build to either a 22 creedmoor or a straight 22-250 with an 8 twist. 22cal bullets are dirt cheap compared to others and I'd use that for practice. Or I may do a 22 br not sure
I'm biased against creedmoors, I know I know, and am a 22-250 fan. But one advantage the 22 creedmoor has over the 22-250 is SMP brass availability. Something I wish my 22-250 had. It makes it more flexible to use when LRP or SRP aren't available or in stock.
 

xsn10s

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It’s a sad sad day
I seem to recall you own one. Maybe we need a name change to "ButterBean6.5"
John Candy Reaction GIF by Laff
 

RockyMtnMT

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Speed does kill , but the question is how much speed do you need? There is a significant price to pay for excessive speed, increased throat erosion. It is a constant problem for ELR shooters. There are cartridges out there that are real speed demons that wear out throats in a matter of 600-700 shots with MVs of 3300 fps. You can actually measure changes in throat wear after every 10 shots! So if you like to shoot a lot, then be prepared to replace or re-chamber your barrel frequently. Replacement barrels are not cheap. I have a nice speedy load for a lowly 243 Win that can push our 80 gr bullet from a 1:10 twist 22” barrel a minimum of 3600 fps and a max of 3750 fps. A 24” barrel will yield 3800+ fps. Would I shoot that load a lot? No because I am cheap and don’t want to wear my throat out and have to rebarrel. A Dear, Elk, or Moose is just as dead if hit with a properly placed, reliably expanding and deeply penetrating bullet going 2900 fps as going 3500 fps from the muzzle.

You should throw your .02 into this thread.
 

fordy

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Gday guys
What a interesting thread started out like a few others good to see it’s Filtered it’s way through the muddy waters
Thanks to all who contributed here I’ve learnt a lot 😍 & I’ve already had my fill of 🦜 🥧 ( parrot pie ) so I’ve got nothing to add
Simple as that
Cheers
 

med358-boise

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First, I think everybody recognizes that it's a combination; however, I think there may actually be a "logically" correct answer if we are talking about "killing" capability for big game. This following is from my logic training and critical thinking classes in college:

First is Penetration. Neither expansion, velocity, or BC matter if the bullet fails penetrate; i.e., no penetration, no injury. Yes of course there could be the freak accident of "I bounced my bullet of an animals skull and it died". While penetration is often a by product of velocity too much velocity does reduced penetration in many scenarios and or severely limits pemetration. Velocity only needs to be sufficient.

Second is Expansion. If the bullet does not expand the likelihood of sufficient tissue damage to cause death is low. Of course, I am excluding CNS shots because other than feral pigs or culling operations I am not aware of any hunter who goes into the field and says - I plan on shooitng my antelope, deer, elk, moose etc in the earhole with my 55 grn .223.

Third is Velocity. All the BC in the world doesn't matter if velocity is only 50 fps. An analogy is aerodynamics, you can make a brick fly with enough velocity.

Fourth is BC. BC efffectively only extends range and in contrast to the above, a low BC can be overcome with velocity.
 
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nralifer

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First, I think everybody recognizes that it's a combination; however, I think there may actually be a "logically" correct answer if we are talking about "killing" capability for big game. This following is from my logic training and critical thinking classes in college:

First is Penetration. Neither expansion, velocity, or BC matter if the bullet fails penetrate; i.e., no penetration, no injury. Yes of course there could be the freak accident of "I bounced my bullet of an animals skull and it died". While penetration is often a by product of velocity too much velocity does reduced penetration in many scenarios and or severely limits pemetration. Velocity only needs to be sufficient.

Second is Expansion. If the bullet does not expand the likelihood of sufficient tissue damage to cause death is low. Of course, I am excluding CNS shots because other than feral pigs or culling operations I am not aware of any hunter who goes into the field and says - I plan on shooitng my antelope, deer, elk, moose etc in the earhole with my 55 grn .223.

Third is Velocity. All the BC in the world doesn't matter if velocity is only 50 fps. An analogy is aerodynamics, you can make a brick fly with enough velocity.

Fourth is BC. BC efffectively only extends range and in contrast to the above, a low BC can be overcome with velocity.
Agreed. So what’s your point? High BC can make up for substantial differences in belocity, especially if the high BC bullet has a low expansion velocity
 

med358-boise

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NRAlifer,

My point is only related to how the "science of logic" would analyze the OPs question which uses the "phrase most important" which means what item trumps all others and then extended it to putting the rest of the items in the order that the discipline of logic dictates.

Often when doing a logic analysis you take variables to the extreme. You can kill animal with a round lead ball launched 700 fps that has a BC of ~.09 at of say 20yards. You cannot kill an animal with a bullet with a BC .6 launched at 20 fps at 20 yards.

The point I was making is if your were forced to order the items what order would they be put in based on the study of logic which is also a way of saying what variable can trump another variable and you do that by looking at the extremes.
 
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med358-boise

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orkan - ok, expansion only needs to be sufficient and no expansion may be sufficient enough (if you find that description more acceptable) but absent penetration there is still no dead animal so, expansion is still second.
 
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bigngreen

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A bullet through both lungs, no expansion or otherwise... and that critter is dead as disco. Might not happen as fast as we'd like, but it's dead.


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I've seen one antelope and a few elk with scars on their lungs and when skinning you could find an entrance and exit scar from a through and through shot.
Seen a picture of a bull with and arrow one side to the other and healed over. Weird stuff happens!!
 
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