Barrel shortening

[Ward Thurman]

We have an old Enfield that when we first shot it with the iron sites, it did OK. We did a lot of work on it and added a scope, blued it, and had the barrel shortened by a gunsmith. Now, with the scope on it, it scatters the bullets all over at 100 yards. I am talking 12-18".

My question is, when the barrel was shortened, (not by much), did the smithy forget to bevel or polish out the rifling at the end and how can you tell?

Tks.

 

[Frog4aday]

It looks like it has a recessed crown cut, so going to say you are okay there. Perhaps the scope is bad? Maybe the mount isn't secured well? Action screws torqued properly? Hard to imagine a barrel shortening all by itself turning it into a shotgun.

 

[tobnpr]

The bore looks crazy in the picture- must be the lighting. All I see is a bunch of reflective silver dots.

The crown job looks OK- but looks don't tell all (and the front sight doesn't look at all like the protected sight of the Enfields?)

Taking an inch or two off a barrel shouldn't negatively impact harmonics to the degree you're indicating.
Unless the smith royally effed up the crown by not dialing in the bore correctly, I'm leaning more towards the optic and/or the mount.

Check the mount to be sure all screws are tight. A slightly loose mount will show at the target exactly what you're describing.
If the mount is tight- could be the optic- what are you using?

 

[GrayCreed]

Also check the lenses in the optic my brother had a vx3i where the front lense was loose, it wouldn't group either

 

[Ward Thurman]

Thanks guys. I will start with the optics. It is an old Bushnell that we have had forever. The mounts are also new. We have another scope to put on it and try out.

The bore looks crazy in the picture- must be the lighting. All I see is a bunch of reflective silver dots.

The crown job looks OK- but looks don't tell all (and the front sight doesn't look at all like the protected sight of the Enfields?)

Taking an inch or two off a barrel shouldn't negatively impact harmonics to the degree you're indicating.
Unless the smith royally effed up the crown by not dialing in the bore correctly, I'm leaning more towards the optic and/or the mount.

Check the mount to be sure all screws are tight. A slightly loose mount will show at the target exactly what you're describing.
If the mount is tight- could be the optic- what are you using?

The barrel is old and has some evidence of corrosion. That is why I had the barrel shortened as the end was badly corroded. I am leaning to the optics as the first 3 shots at 50 yards (getting it on the paper) were touching. At 100 yards, it all unraveled. Tks!

 

[Ward Thurman]

So guys, if we were to rebarrel this action, (it is a Winchester so we believe the barrel will come off w/o cracking the receiver), and we were looking to build an elk LR rifle, what 30-06 variant would you chose? We are leaning towards a 30-06 or 280 Ackley improved. We have also considered a non-elk rifle in a 6.5x30-06 Ackley improved. We will maintain the original taper so we can keep the stock the same.

 

[GrayCreed]

284 win can kill elk as well as the 6.5-06 idea. Don't straight up overlook 30-06 if you get a new barrel with a precision longer chamber you can stretch the bullets out (in regular 30-06) and be in 300wsm territory.

 

[tobnpr]

^^^

Yep. Or, the 6.5 x .284 Norma.

I know the P17 is well-suited to the '06 case, but no knowledge beyond that as to what will feed reliably from the magazine so I'd pay careful attention to case and overall length as well as diameter.

Since you mentioned "long range" elk- consider your max range, and desired energy when making your decision. The actions are strong enough to handle whatever you want to throw at it. Others with more knowledge can confirm or tell me I'm wrong, but I think you could swap in a P14 bolt and go with a magnum casehead chambering as well if additional energy is needed.

Good luck with it.

 

[shortgrass]

Are the front scope mount screws too long and hitting the barrel tenon? There is no other milsup receiver that requires more work to 'sporterize' than a 1917 or P14. On any M1917 or P14 that I am going to remove the barrel from, I will make a 'relief' cut at the barrel/receiver junction regardless of manufacturer. Any of 'um can be 'cracked' when attempting to remove the barrel. Any cartridge based on the 06 will feed without much problem.

 

[Ward Thurman]

Are the front scope mount screws too long and hitting the barrel tenon? There is no other milsup receiver that requires more work to 'sporterize' than a 1917 or P14. On any M1917 or P14 that I am going to remove the barrel from, I will make a 'relief' cut at the barrel/receiver junction regardless of manufacturer. Any of 'um can be 'cracked' when attempting to remove the barrel. Any cartridge based on the 06 will feed without much problem.

Shortgrass,
I am not sure on the first question, but I know the rear screws were too long and were dragging on the bolt. We also had to file off some burrs the guy left after drilling the receiver for the mounts. We got it fixed now. For an old "cock on closing" action, it is pretty smooth.
Thankfully, most of the "sporterizing" has already been done on this one. Put a Timmey trigger in it already.

Tks for the info! Always a big help.

 

[Ward Thurman]

^^^

Yep. Or, the 6.5 x .284 Norma.

I know the P17 is well-suited to the '06 case, but no knowledge beyond that as to what will feed reliably from the magazine so I'd pay careful attention to case and overall length as well as diameter.

Since you mentioned "long range" elk- consider your max range, and desired energy when making your decision. The actions are strong enough to handle whatever you want to throw at it. Others with more knowledge can confirm or tell me I'm wrong, but I think you could swap in a P14 bolt and go with a magnum casehead chambering as well if additional energy is needed.

Good luck with it.

We already have a 6.5x284 Norma (my son's) so we would like something different and nifty, but not too outrageous. I have studied the regular books for the std 30-06 vis the 300 win mag and with 180 gr bullets, I don't see you gain that much with a 300 win mag. That's why we are thinking the '06 Ackley improved - you are almost at 300 win mag and burning a lot less powder to do it.

I think the advice to use a lengthened chamber on an '06 is not going to work for the reason you mention above; I don't think the rounds would fit in and feed from the magazine.

My son with the deer he killed this last fall with the 6.5x284. 350 yard shot. Deer was dead before he heard the report of the rifle. This is an off-the-shelf used Savage. With my handloads it is sub-MOA. Sweet.

Tks for the info. Love it all.

 

[tobnpr]

^^^
Cool. I agree- at the ranges you're speaking of, nothing "extraordinarily" flat-shooting required.
Without looking at the tables, I believe the .06 gets a bit anemic for elk beyond 600 or so.
Even though I don't hunt much, I've got a 7 STW reamer on the shelf that's been screaming at me to use it "just because" I have this thing for ELR and big boomers...

 

[Ward Thurman]

After 2 more trips to Africa and back, I finally got around to working on this gun again.
I checked the mounts, they were tight. I put a different scope on it and put some different rounds through it. The best I got was a 5" group. The others are still casting about all over the paper. I think the barrel is toast.

My question for you great folks today is, what is a 30-06 Match? Is it an '06 with the lengthened chamber?

We are considering a McGowan barrel since they are close by in Kalispell. They do not have a '06 Ackley Improved chambering on their list, so we would have to pay an extra $150 to have it.

Next question, would the $150 be worth it?

 

[tobnpr]

My question for you great folks today is, what is a 30-06 Match? Is it an '06 with the lengthened chamber?

Generally, so-called "match" reamers have added freebore/longer throat from the SAAMI spec.
Could have tighter neck as well- as there is no "standard" for this, you need to check the reamer specs and see if that's beneficial for the bullets you plan on shooting.