Barrel cleaning and settling down...

He's just 38 with two small children...

I can not say I know how you feel because I have never experienced an event like you describe. Many years ago I spent a lot of time with one of my grandmothers, she told me about the Influenza in 1917 and 1918. To some she was just an old lady, what she experienced during that time was an absolute horror story, I thanked her.

I was dumpster diving, I was told jobs were going overseas with the machines and the material was being thrown away. I was thinking about patches. I have a 3' sheer and a 14" shear, my wife hid her green pattern cutting board and roller knife. I was told the green board could not be destroyed, she would disagree.

Shorten the story: I found spools and rolls of material that thinking I could find someone that could use it. And then I got to thinking and that changed my methods and or techniques for cleaning barrels.

Shorten the story more: The Internet is place that is embedded into resistance to change/new ideals so I just thought I would mentioned the rolls and spools of material to make someone aware there are other ways to clean a barrel.

F. Guffey
 
Got an FN in 30-06 made in 1953 with a chrome-vanadium barrel that is the same. Five shots of Federal Premium 150 gr Sierra bt would all be touching/overlapping/same hole. I cleaned regular, but never reloaded for it . Didn't believe I could make it better. Then Federal seemed to switch to Nickel cases. Didn't want them!! Started working up a load for it. Just about finished and I found an internet site that had a whole lot of those Federal factory loads. Stocked up on those. Still gonna finish the handloads of course .


YEP! Federal Premium 165gr Sierra SP or Partitions - all touched in a cluster. They changed and that is about the time I tried other loads, solid coppers, etc. Then handloading came back for my daughter (125gr) and 150. Need to play more but literally right before our deer season I did the KG2. Barrel looks new when I put a light down in it.
 
Have seen way too many guns shoot like garbage after a good cleaning. Some take 5-8 rounds to calm down, others may take 20-25. I see this more with factory rifles than custom guns. Big fan of fouled barrels and the consistency they produce.
 
So I did a thing last week out of pure boredom due to this BS virus and being locked in my house, so I scrubbed and cleaned all my rifles with foam cleaner and a nylon brush. Squeaky clean...So I went out to the range yesterday and proceeded to shoot said rifles, 240 why, 280 rem, 7-300 mag. Now these rifles all shoot 1/2 MOA consistently. Well needless to say, they're now shooting about 1.5-3 MOA...I shot around 15 shots out of each and the only ones that started to settle down were the 280 and the 7-300. They're down around 1 MOA. The 240 WBY is still around 2 MOA. Not very happy and I won't be cleaning my barrels anytime soon again until I visibly start to see the groups go to crap. Lesson learned...who knows how long they're going to take to settle back in. Thought it would only take a few rounds honestly. I've never seen these rifles shoot so bad with proven loads in my life. Not a happy camper..


Bet you worked the load up with a dirty barrel as well.
 
Learned a looooooog time ago to NEVER clean a bore down to the bear metal. Cleaned my tack driving Shilen barreled 25-06 down to the metal and it took 20 rounds through it to get it to start shooting again. Started never cleaning the bore, will clean the chamber and throat, until accuracy starts to go away and with some of my rifles that is a looooooog time between cleanings and then it is just some #9 or Breakfree depending on the rifle.
 
So I did a thing last week out of pure boredom due to this BS virus and being locked in my house, so I scrubbed and cleaned all my rifles with foam cleaner and a nylon brush. Squeaky clean...So I went out to the range yesterday and proceeded to shoot said rifles, 240 why, 280 rem, 7-300 mag. Now these rifles all shoot 1/2 MOA consistently. Well needless to say, they're now shooting about 1.5-3 MOA...I shot around 15 shots out of each and the only ones that started to settle down were the 280 and the 7-300. They're down around 1 MOA. The 240 WBY is still around 2 MOA. Not very happy and I won't be cleaning my barrels anytime soon again until I visibly start to see the groups go to crap. Lesson learned...who knows how long they're going to take to settle back in. Thought it would only take a few rounds honestly. I've never seen these rifles shoot so bad with proven loads in my life. Not a happy camper..
Must be the virus remingtonman,thing is everywhere they say!
 
I am sorry your son and your family are going through this Shepardswatch. I fear there will be many more. Keep the faith brother.
 
All of my rifles including my military 303's and 6.5's have had a good brake in and cleanig regime. All shoot perfectly with clean cold shot hitting the same point as a warm fouled bore.
Guess it really comes down to the quality of the barrel and how it was treated from new. I can put 100 rounds through the tube with no shift in POI and it cleans up so easily. Bench rest type cleaning is way different than a copper equilibrium style of cleaning.
Personally I prefer clean barrels made with quality
 
Sounds like it may be more than a cleaning problem.
But, there is nothing wrong with managing bores after white metal clean. After all, great benchrest shooters do it.
Also, there is never anything 'good' about copper fouling. The best barrels in the world barely copper foul, if at all, so it's not like it's needed. In contrast, the worst barrels in the world can copper foul out in 5-10shots (I've seen this).

The trick is having a fouling plan, and developing with it.
For example, your plan might be to clean everything, every time, and adding a good alcohol wash to dry. Then dry pre-foul, so that you can count on a first shot like any to follow. I find tungsten disulfide (WS2) excellent for this.
While I suppose less convenient than shoddy or seldom cleaning, it is absolutely consistent.

You know, no matter how complex, if you do it to the point of habit, it's easy. And you don't think of it in terms of easy or difficult. Instead, it becomes right or wrong.

Mikecr,
Can you explain the use and procedure you use with the WS2?

Thanks Dave
 
I was taught fully (by 12yrs old) to always put guns away cleaner than I pulled them.
That's not a wipe-down, but full disassembly/clean/reassembly. This was part of many things that amounted to disciplined respect for guns and their uses.
I'm 56 now and every gun I've ever had and hold today were/are in impeccable condition. You might as well believe it's just the same with my son and his care of guns.

So did this hurt me? It did, for a while.
I read a lot of shooting articles, and about cleaning, and it used to be understood that it took ~8 shots to burn Hoppes from a bore and replace it with stable fouling. That's a lot. And I tested it, and they were right.
Well Hoppes is thin stuff, like sowing machine oil, and today's agents are more tenacious.

Fouling is a very important internal ballistic attribute. It directly affects tune, and one fouling different from another will then hurt your results. This includes X-powder -vs- Y-powder fouling.
Now throw into the mix whatever petroleum based products you're leaving in the bore -and it's all out the window -until you've finally undone what you're doing, and started over...
But, instead of giving in to leave a bunch of bad in your bores, try MANAGING your fouling.
Keep that fouling consistently where you put it for load tuning.
You can do this, while keeping your bores consistently clean.

After a range session, no matter the shot count, I jump right on the carbon before it takes a set. Faster removal, is easier removal. My cleaning method is basically that of Speedy Gonzales: https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=13001
This, including use of peroxide to remove copper cleaner, and on completion I wash the bore with the best alcohol I can find. Let that dry, check with a borescope, and go on to pre-fouling.
This cleanliness is referred to as white metal clean.

I have larger jag tubes holding mops per cal, BBs, and a pinch here & there of Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) powder.
I can squeeze the jag tube to hold the mop while I screw a cleaning rod onto it, and not make a mess of things. I made a dedicated rod guide out of a large gas line, so that I don't make a mess in my normal delrin rod guides, and this keeps everything clean in the action.
I carefully move the rod/mop past the action and past the chamber into the bore and work it back & forth down the bore to burnish in the dry WS2. Then a quick canned air blowdown (outdoors), and a super thinned mix of Marvel Mystery Oil wipe of the chamber itself.

This is how I've put the bores away for ~30yrs+. Dry and fully ready for future use.
The WS2 seems a universal fouling that somehow matches that of every powder I've used over the years. I can tell you that other foulers; graphite and moly, are not like this (have never tried HBN, sorry).
What's most important about this for me is that I put great efforts into cold bore accuracy, so I need stable fouling for each and every shot. With WS2 pre-fouling, my first shot will be right with any to follow. I know it, I can pull any gun from the safe and go hunting without concern.
What else matters as much is that WS2 cleans right out. I can replace it after each use, constantly restoring my baseline.

Like other coatings WS2 greatly reduces copper fouling. You can go pretty much as many shots as you want between cleanings. With good aftermarket bores coated as I do, I have seen first traces copper at around 90 rounds. But 2-3 times that is still not a problem yet, and easily cleans right out afterwards (including copper/carbon).
Some may jump on that as enough to clean less... .. It's just not me.
My father is gone, but he'd put lightning on me for sure if I did that
 
Not trying to be combative in any way, but the BS virus is trying to take my son's life as I write this. His employer didn't supply them with the proper safety equipment in the initial onset of this thing so that they were protected. He works for a major pharmaceutical corporation in security dealing with people from all over the nation every day and their employer failed them in not taking this threat serious enough to provide the PPE . Now my son is battling for his life in Isolation in the hospital, he also exposed his children and many other family members who are now in quarantine. Seeing my wife breaking down crying with the dread of loosing her youngest son is to say at the least (heart breaking) no matter what I say or how I hold her it doesn't comfort her Mothers worried and broken heart for her son battling for his life with an unseen enemy all alone with no family for support! There are many, many other across our nation facing the same thing, they too need our prayers and support. "It's the American way since our beginning!"
Two things, I'm curious for those who cleaned and have or haven't seen a difference, what are you using. Mono's or lead core?
Last this virus is going to become a more serious issue quick. Social shut down is the answer to slow this. Wash your hands and wear a mask in public. I am an ER nurse that faces this issue of proper protection and numbers of sick people coming in daily . It is a quick progression that overwhelms the body I wish the best for Shepardswatch's son and family. Please take it seriously!
Thanks
 
So I did a thing last week out of pure boredom due to this BS virus and being locked in my house, so I scrubbed and cleaned all my rifles with foam cleaner and a nylon brush. Squeaky clean...So I went out to the range yesterday and proceeded to shoot said rifles, 240 why, 280 rem, 7-300 mag. Now these rifles all shoot 1/2 MOA consistently. Well needless to say, they're now shooting about 1.5-3 MOA...I shot around 15 shots out of each and the only ones that started to settle down were the 280 and the 7-300. They're down around 1 MOA. The 240 WBY is still around 2 MOA. Not very happy and I won't be cleaning my barrels anytime soon again until I visibly start to see the groups go to crap. Lesson learned...who knows how long they're going to take to settle back in. Thought it would only take a few rounds honestly. I've never seen these rifles shoot so bad with proven loads in my life. Not a happy camper..
Over the past 3 years wasting a lot of time, money & ammo I now abide by either: 1. Clean them everytime you shoot them, or....2. Leave them dirty!
 
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