I figured those speeds were coming from N570, I have plenty of Retumbo and H1000 I plan to use. Also have 5lbs of RL26 but have so much confidence in H1000 for every rifle it's feeds.
Badlands Precision Bullets thread - From BC to terminal ballistics
- Thread starter codyadams
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
I thought I'd post these here as well as over on my bullet testing thread. Codyadams was generous enough to send me some 250gr SB II and 270gr SB I bullets to test in my ballistic gel. Both bullets were fired from an 18" 338/375 Ruger specialty pistol, so muzzle velocities are very similar to what you'd get from a 24" 338 Win Mag. I shot the 250gr using the same load that I use for both the 260gr Hammer Hunter and the 250gr SMK and ended up with a muzzle velocity of 2645fps. I haven't shot enough bullets in the 270gr range to have a good baseline load for that weight, so I just went with the same charge that I use with the 285gr ELDm bullets. This was obviously a low charge for the 270 and I ended up with a muzzle velocity of 2440fps, much lower than I was expecting. These are the Badland bullets compared to the others I tested. Left to right: 225 TTSX, 250 SB II, 260 Hammer Hunter, 270 SB, 285 ELDm.
Here are the still photos of the impacts.
250gr SB II impact velocity 2445fps
270gr SB I impact velocity 2245fps
The 250gr SB II penetrated 24.5", which actually surprised me, I expected more. The 270gr SB went 37", even at the low impact velocity.
Recovered bullets with the weight of the shank and all petals recovered:
Here's an interesting picture and I'm not sure what to make of it. The first 270gr bullet I fired exited the side of the block, so I fired a second one into the gel later on to get a recovered bullet. I just shot it into a block that I'd already fired a 285gr ELDm into. The glowing spot you see in the gel block here is actually the bullet tip from the Buldozer.
I'm not sure what caused this, but it's a pretty cool shot either way.
I'll have the full videos of the bullet tests from this trip posted up tomorrow night. The full video will include impacts at full and reduced speed of all 5 bullets I tested on this trip out (225gr TTSX, 250gr SB II, 260gr HH, 270gr SB, 285gr ELDm)
Here are the still photos of the impacts.
250gr SB II impact velocity 2445fps
270gr SB I impact velocity 2245fps
The 250gr SB II penetrated 24.5", which actually surprised me, I expected more. The 270gr SB went 37", even at the low impact velocity.
Recovered bullets with the weight of the shank and all petals recovered:
Here's an interesting picture and I'm not sure what to make of it. The first 270gr bullet I fired exited the side of the block, so I fired a second one into the gel later on to get a recovered bullet. I just shot it into a block that I'd already fired a 285gr ELDm into. The glowing spot you see in the gel block here is actually the bullet tip from the Buldozer.
I'm not sure what caused this, but it's a pretty cool shot either way.
I'll have the full videos of the bullet tests from this trip posted up tomorrow night. The full video will include impacts at full and reduced speed of all 5 bullets I tested on this trip out (225gr TTSX, 250gr SB II, 260gr HH, 270gr SB, 285gr ELDm)
codyadams
Well-Known Member
You are the man!! Thank you for all your work!
The penetration of the 270 at such a low velocity really impressed me. It was also interesting to see how the petal fragments performed. The Hammer bullets, which I've shot a LOT of, tend to have the petals radiate out of the blocking after about 8" of penetration. All of the Badlands petals penetrated in more of a straight line, going deeper into the gel. A lot of them made it more than 18" into the gel.
Hespco
Well-Known Member
The pedals traveling that far forward is interesting. To me that is a positive development.
That is very interesting. As far as game performance wouldn't we find the radial shedding of the hammers more beneficial than linear shedding of the Bulldozers since the bullet shanks will continue to penetrate? Just kinda thinking out loud here
Trigger24
Active Member
Yorke, are these tests in 20% gel? We've tested them pretty extensively in game and in gel. I've found the 20% gel to be harder on bullets than game animals is. We usually run a 10% gel block in front to see how they're going to open and what the wound channel looks like, and a 20% behind it to stop the bullet so we can recover them. It just seems the missing petals and small frontal diameters are not what We've seen from game recovered bullets at those speeds.
I'm not in any way picking on your testing. Your tests look great. It's your test. Test any way you like. Just sharing my experiences.
I'm not in any way picking on your testing. Your tests look great. It's your test. Test any way you like. Just sharing my experiences.
Trigger24
Active Member
That depends on a lot of things. Where do the petals go when they come off? What do they hit? How much damage is the small shank doing when it continues on?
Keep in mind, animals are not made out of gel. For instance let's take the R.I.P. pistol bullet. It spits petals off about 3-4" into 10% gel.
At the same time, the calibration for 10% gel is a steel BB at 600fps, and is supposed to penetrate 3½-3¾". This would not be where I want petals coming off. And depending on the weight of the petals, do they have enough mass to do any damage?
I like to keep my petals on until the bullet exits. Keep the frontal diameter as big as possible. Destroy as much as I can on the way through. Keep the channel big for as long as possible.
I see a benefit to both approaches. The petals from the Hammer bullets vary in size depending on the specific style of bullet, and there's some pretty good evidence on large/heavy game that having larger fragments radiate outwards provides some pretty spectacular results. Those petals separate at about the 8" mark and travel outwards from there in the gel. If that 8" mark puts them inside the chest cavity, then they do a ton of damage. The idea of the petal fragments traveling in more of a straight line is intriguing too. I imagine them behaving almost like buckshot. inside the chest cavity with a more gradual opening of the "pattern".
It's funny you'd mention the 10% vs 20% gel. My test medium has changed from the initial testing I did a few years ago when I was using suede leather soaked in water. The depth of penetration I saw in that testing was shallower than what you'd see in gel or animal tissue, but the bullet expansion actually matched up very closely with the same bullet recovered from game animals with similar impact velocities. I tested 64 different bullets in 10 different bore diameters that time around.
This time I started my testing using 20% gel blocks because I felt like they were a better match for dense animal tissue. The first tests I did with the gel were with handgun bullets fired from a pair of 10mm handguns. I tested them in both bare 20% gel and 20% gel with a layer of the same leather from the previous tests and a shoulder blade from a small (150#) black bear. That testing is posted here on LRH. Some of my initial rifle bullet tests were in the same 20% gel, but when it came time to buy additional gel blocks, I went with the 10% just because it gives a more "dramatic" impact on video. I compared the penetration of previously tested rifle and handgun loads in both the 10% and 20% gel and I found a slight difference in penetration and expansion with the 10% gel giving slightly greater permanent wound cavities and penetration, but it was less than 10% difference when compared the same loads fired into the 20% gel at the same impact velocity. Now all of the testings are done similar to how you described, with a 10% block in the front and two 20% blocks in the back to catch the bullets.
So am I understanding correctly that the intention is for the SB II bullets to retain most of their weight and hold the expanded petals while losing the tip, similar to a Barnes bullet? That would explain the very shallow HP cavity I saw in the recovered bullets. I wasn't sure if that was a result of the low impact velocities, a less than ideal barrel twist, or just the result of a very limited sample size. I need to stop wasting time and reach out to Badlands to see if I can order up a bunch of small quantity "sample size" packs of different bullets to test. I've been saying I was going to do that for nearly 2 months now and just haven't followed through.
Bghunter338
Well-Known Member
Thank you, this is great to here about the 270 badlands because that's what I have planned on using when my 338 AM when it's done.
Last edited:
codyadams
Well-Known Member
They are making the 275 SBDII's now, with a slightly different hollow point design of the 250 sbdii's he tested, and a higher bc. I suppose if you specially requested they would likely make you a run of the old design, however I would try the new ones first and see how they did.
Bghunter338
Well-Known Member
That's a great idea. The 275's sound even better. Thanks Codyadams
codyadams
Well-Known Member
Yup, as long as you have the 9 or tighter twist....that's what they need. But at that, they give you an .880 g1/.451 G7 with those 275's, and that Allen Mag will have plenty of sauce to get em goin FAST!That's a great idea. The 275's sound even better. Thanks Codyadams
