Too Tall Rosenwald
Well-Known Member
You guys sure have a lot of opinions. You should be over on the 'Hide'.
BAD remington experience
- Thread starter Gurnz
- Start date
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Too Tall Rosenwald
Well-Known Member
I heard that...
They just got their hand slapped a while back, so it should be more civil.
They just got their hand slapped a while back, so it should be more civil.
I really hate seeing a thread like this, as I have always been a Remington fan. That being said, I have owned over two dozen 700's in the last 30 years and never seen one that I could not find a load for to make it a .5MOA gun......until now. I always wanted to try a 300WM 5R in their rifle, and bought one about a month ago. I only fired 29 rounds through the rifle,,,,,,,,it would not shoot better than a 3" group at 100 yards. I changed mounts and scope to rule that out in the testing and same thing, terrible accuracy. Fired brass would have bad gouges in it and 7 out of 10 rounds fire-formed to the gun would not rechamber. Pretty sure of a chamber/reamer issue from the factory........on a special run production rifle to boot.
I just sent it on its way back to Remington on Friday, so stay tuned for what takes place. I will say that this is the worst QC issue I have ever been involved with from any manufacturer. Gun will not group, chamber is out of round, floorplate is a bitch to get back in with magazine, tooling marks, and it has the roughest cycling action of any bolt action rifle I have ever seen. I am sick......hopefully something good will come out of the return. If not, well, I just do not know what is next.....
I just sent it on its way back to Remington on Friday, so stay tuned for what takes place. I will say that this is the worst QC issue I have ever been involved with from any manufacturer. Gun will not group, chamber is out of round, floorplate is a bitch to get back in with magazine, tooling marks, and it has the roughest cycling action of any bolt action rifle I have ever seen. I am sick......hopefully something good will come out of the return. If not, well, I just do not know what is next.....
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
Some people not only don't properly clean their rifles but don't exercise proper muzzle control either. Together that has combined to kill a few people. The cause of the 700's accidental firing when the safety is taken off is (usually) from a long time build-up of oily gunk inside the fire control/trigger housing. All oils eventually dry and many will leave a kind of varnish-like goo (WD-40 is horrible for that). Unless it's cleaned occasionally the goo eventually gets so thick the trigger's floating 'connector' can't reset properly. So if the trigger is pulled with the safety on, the firing pin will be released when the safety is released.
I learned this the hard way. Fortunately I was using good muzzle control. I credit muzzle control, and the fact many of these guns see minimal use for the minimum of tragedies that have occurred.
However, while a contributing factor, it didn't resolve the issue in my first rifle, or subsequent ones I've seen this happen in. None were "tinkered" with either.
I can also tell you that when you're 15, and it happens in front of a bunch of older men whose trust and respect you wish to earn, the knowledge every company has a few get through means nothing. Quite frankly neither does good warranty work, or expedient service.
It may be something that has to be seen to be believed.
I learned this the hard way. Fortunately I was using good muzzle control. I credit muzzle control, and the fact many of these guns see minimal use for the minimum of tragedies that have occurred.
However, while a contributing factor, it didn't resolve the issue in my first rifle, or subsequent ones I've seen this happen in. None were "tinkered" with either.
I can also tell you that when you're 15, and it happens in front of a bunch of older men whose trust and respect you wish to earn, the knowledge every company has a few get through means nothing. Quite frankly neither does good warranty work, or expedient service.
It may be something that has to be seen to be believed.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
last time I bought it, it came out of Michigan. You've pretty much ran accross it on a regular basis. It's the stuff they put on set screws to hold them in place (looks like a dot on the thread made of plastic. All you need is a very small drop of it on the thread. Let it dry, and install. DONOT use the stuff wet!! Vibratite works best on very fine threads, and is not considered a thread locker, but an anti-vibration device. A small bottle will last you a couple of lifetimes if kept in proper storage.
Loctite also makes a "wicking" threadlocker, but this stuff is pretty close to red. You make your adjustments and then put a drop of the stuff around the threads. A half hour later it's forever. You can break Loctite loose with about 225 degrees of heat. A cheapo cigar torch will easilly do it
I'll try to find you a site to order in a bottle (get the very smallest one they make).
gary
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
you can get Vibra-Tite from:
Sinclair
Brownells
Graf&Sons
Sportsmans Guide
for contact information and user data, goto ND Industries or call 1-800-521-2663
hope this helps
gary
Sinclair
Brownells
Graf&Sons
Sportsmans Guide
for contact information and user data, goto ND Industries or call 1-800-521-2663
hope this helps
gary
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
if you post was refering to my comments, let me say it this way. "The trigger would freeze up about half to two thirds of the way in travel." Ferris said it was somekind of a "J series" trigger that Remington had went to using. (think he called it a J Lock). All I wanted was a 2.5lb. to 3lb. trigger with about .015" creep.
Last time I looked the two top quality autos sold in the world were a Lexus ($75K) and a Buick Lucerne ($40K). Interestingly, both are union made here and in Japan. Stats came out of Wards; the industry bible
gary
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
I don't know about others with that issue, but my rifle might have had 25 rounds thru it when it first let the firing pin go without pulling the trigger. The trigger was a little rough, and Doug went thru it with an Arkansas stone and some elbow grease. Much smoother, but still had the same issues. The next try was with Doug and Ferris both doing it. The third time around was with the 1978 trigger group that Ferris built to shoot benchrest with many moons ago.
gary
Wile E Coyote
Well-Known Member
The short answer to this thread is Remington has a manufacturing problem, a QC problem and a customer service problem. Each of these eventually become exposed through customer service and as many of us have experienced, the stuff hits the fan.
What we don't know is exactly why they, Remington or many other manufacturers for that matter, cannot take care of their customers properly each and every time. Has most of the old talent retired? Do they rely too heavily on CNC equipment? Have they cut corners to save a buck?
Remington is now part of some conglomerate and as such the accountants most likely make the final calls on just about every aspect of the business. The engineers, machinists and mechanics that are there are probably made to feel luckey to have a job. Is this not how most of American manufacturing has gone? From business class 101; a business exists to make the shareholder a profit period. Everything else is secondary if it's important at all. Sadly, this is the mindset in every boardroom today.
If one wants to impress the decision makers at a company, one must appeal to their impending loss of a customer and the future income that customer will remove from their future balance sheets. If enough customers let the company executives know they are losing customers because of something that is easily fixed they might someday make the changes needed to turn the company around. That is their job. A great example of this is Savage. Look at where Savage was and where they are now and how they did it.
What we don't know is exactly why they, Remington or many other manufacturers for that matter, cannot take care of their customers properly each and every time. Has most of the old talent retired? Do they rely too heavily on CNC equipment? Have they cut corners to save a buck?
Remington is now part of some conglomerate and as such the accountants most likely make the final calls on just about every aspect of the business. The engineers, machinists and mechanics that are there are probably made to feel luckey to have a job. Is this not how most of American manufacturing has gone? From business class 101; a business exists to make the shareholder a profit period. Everything else is secondary if it's important at all. Sadly, this is the mindset in every boardroom today.
If one wants to impress the decision makers at a company, one must appeal to their impending loss of a customer and the future income that customer will remove from their future balance sheets. If enough customers let the company executives know they are losing customers because of something that is easily fixed they might someday make the changes needed to turn the company around. That is their job. A great example of this is Savage. Look at where Savage was and where they are now and how they did it.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
One thing I do know about Remington is how they manage their tooling. THEY DON'T!! A while back I was working with a factory rep from Monarch Sidney. I'd been working with Ray for almost two solid years, and knew how he did things and also knew that Ray knew his business better than 98% of the reps I'd been around. He got a call from his boss one morning, and was sent upto New York to have a look at some Monarch VMC's and a couple chuckers. He said the machines were pretty much junk in the condition they were in. Parts comming off them were way outta spec. He went thru each machine as best he could and actually borrowed three sets of ball screws from me to be replaced at a later date. The machines were all way out of square, and all had bad spindle bearing packs. He got the machines runable after about six weeks, and they were still outta spec! Then he started checking the jigs and fixtures they were using, and all that stuff was junk. He loaded it in the back of his SUV, and took it to Monarch Sidney for a complete rebuild. Upon returning and setting the machines up they were running excellent parts (he made a lot of programing edits along the way as well.). Ray said that it appeared that Remington never maintained their equipment and had little if any ideas about programing them!
gary
squirrelduster
Well-Known Member
Wile E and Tricky hit the nail on the head. First off Remington has gone the way of most American manufactures, us older people, 40+, are retiring or moving out of the hands on part of the process. The new kids graduating from school are not allowed access to wood shop, auto shop or any other hands on classes in school.
The schools are turning to computers and teaching kids how to survive in that world. Nobody is teaching mechanical skills as part of a basic education. When I was in high school we needed to take a shop class to graduate.
So the observation of the equipment was falling apart is no big surprise. The people running the equipment had no idea there was anything wrong. No mechanical aptitude and lax QC.
The second part of the failure is the corporation. Most larger companies care little about customer service, I see it in my business all the time. The larger they get the more out of touch with the consumer they become. As an exaample I own an alarm company. My company looses about 2 customers per year or about .3%, the big companies like ADT loose around 22%. All they would need to do is retain these customers and they boost their profit by 20+% without doing anything.
Sorry to be so long winded here but Remington is what a typical large corporation in America is becoming. Doubtful the government will bail them out of the mess they are creating like the auto companies got. And people wonder why American manufacturing has a bad reputation. It's very sad that they don't really care what we the consumer think.
The schools are turning to computers and teaching kids how to survive in that world. Nobody is teaching mechanical skills as part of a basic education. When I was in high school we needed to take a shop class to graduate.
So the observation of the equipment was falling apart is no big surprise. The people running the equipment had no idea there was anything wrong. No mechanical aptitude and lax QC.
The second part of the failure is the corporation. Most larger companies care little about customer service, I see it in my business all the time. The larger they get the more out of touch with the consumer they become. As an exaample I own an alarm company. My company looses about 2 customers per year or about .3%, the big companies like ADT loose around 22%. All they would need to do is retain these customers and they boost their profit by 20+% without doing anything.
Sorry to be so long winded here but Remington is what a typical large corporation in America is becoming. Doubtful the government will bail them out of the mess they are creating like the auto companies got. And people wonder why American manufacturing has a bad reputation. It's very sad that they don't really care what we the consumer think.
REDHEAD
Well-Known Member
I know of several Colts that had to be sent back to the factor.
