Bad Luck With Bergers

[chucknbach]

I shot an antelope this year 3 times at 200 yards with an 87gn berger out of a .243. The bullet wasn't at fault, my zero was low (don't ask) but it did rip off the breast bone and tore her opposite leg off with the first shot. The group size on that doe was running about 1/2 MOA.

I haven't had a problem with these bullets. I've killed junk from 100yds out to 550yds. I like the performance at distance but think they're a little too devastating up close.

I have noticed the quality of the finish decline from a year and half ago though. I've noticed more and more what looks like water stains on them. My last box I bought had the water stains and what looks like vertical grooves or scratches from the ogive to the tip. Wasn't happy at first but they still shot well and they did a number on the antelopes so, oh well.

 

[kilmer]

Hmmm. The recovered bullets pictured appear to have done exactly what they were supposed to do. Obvious to me that they expanded and fragmented inside the elk.

Weird.

Maybe that elk just didn't want to die.

 

[Wheatgerm]

My last box I bought had the water stains and what looks like vertical grooves or scratches from the ogive to the tip. Wasn't happy at first but they still shot well and they did a number on the antelopes so, oh well.

My latest box of 6mm bullets had the versicle scratches also. I thought it was from my seating die but I looked in the box and seems they all have them.... it must not effect it much, I just shot a 3/8 in group last night with them

 

[RMulhern]

Lordy Lordy...you boys don't know beans from ******** when it comes to bullets! Those 'versicle' (vertical) scratches you're seeing on the bullets are formed by a very good point up die which folds the jacket into a nice and concentric configuration!!

 

[Joe King]

Lordy Lordy...you boys don't know beans from ******** when it comes to bullets! Those 'versicle' (vertical) scratches you're seeing on the bullets are formed by a very good point up die which folds the jacket into a nice and concentric configuration!!

Seems to me they know all they need to. They shoot good and kill good, for the last 2 anyway. When did we have to become bullet smiths to have something to say?

 

[chucknbach]

Lordy Lordy...you boys don't know beans from ******** when it comes to bullets! Those 'versicle' (vertical) scratches you're seeing on the bullets are formed by a very good point up die which folds the jacket into a nice and concentric configuration!!

Don't get your panties in a bunch. Just making an observation. The 2 of us that have noticed this have stated they still shoot. I just think if cosmetic quality can falter, it's quite possible quality can falter else where.

I also wouldn't call any die that leaves scratch's behind, good.

 

[bkondeff]

Clearly those bullets look like you would expect bergers too. If you are looking for big exit wounds, this is not necessarily your bullet as often they will turn to shrapenel and stay in the animal, or all but a small amount, dumping all their energy. Now I understand if a bullet does NOT expand and goes through, leaving almost an arrow like wound channel, that you should see Berger about. I did have this on some 115 .257's of their's and they are testing them...but these were older bullets so those using them now please don't call Berger. I have had wonderful results on about 8 animals(mule deer and elk) with my 7mm 168's, great wound channels, but not large exit wounds and none walked more than 2 steps after well placed shots somewhere in the bony part of the shoulder/spine.

Accubonds are good bullets and I do use them, but there is no better bullet choice in this VLD high bc range for hunting.....

 

[guns_and_labs]

I've had the opposite problem with Bergers - they destroy too much - and I occasionally go back to Accubonds for shorter distances.

 

[4ester]

Another Elk down here with a 210 Berger.

Cow Elk at 150 yards running full tilt. Held right in front of the brisket, and dropped her like a sack of potatoes. Perfect Behind the shoulder lung hit. DRT

This makes 3 Elk and 1 deer killed by the Bergers. Nothing but happy here.

And just an FYI: 300 RUM, MV 3080 fps, 210 Berger VLD

Not all of us have the same results.

 

[Moe02]

Well **** I wish that I was having the same results as everyone else because they sure shoot good. Are most of you guys shooting high front shoulder? All of my shots have been made right behind the front shoulder, not taking out the shoulder (Maybe this is some of the problem?).

 

[bkondeff]

I've had the opposite problem with Bergers - they destroy too much - and I occasionally go back to Accubonds for shorter distances.

After my first deer, where the insides literally looked like it had all been put in a blender, I thouhgt there was too much damage also, but really the blood shoot is usually only massive on the internal(liquid) area and not so much in the main muscle so I have not felt concerned anymore.

Yes high shoulder shots are great, but really a shot right into the ribs should work fine, but if you had to rely on hitting bone everytime I would not rely on that bullet.

 

[royinidaho]

Here's my 2 cents on the subject: http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/berger-bullet-performance-data-point-100581/

 

[toddc]

Well **** I wish that I was having the same results as everyone else because they sure shoot good. Are most of you guys shooting high front shoulder? All of my shots have been made right behind the front shoulder, not taking out the shoulder (Maybe this is some of the problem?).

Hmmmm. the bullet you showed did MASSIVE internal damage to that animal. END OF STORY. Any bullet that mushrooms is dumping energy and not penciling thru. Not every animal out there is going to comply with the marketing directives of nosler or berger and fall over dead instantly like a steel plate. Animal was dead on its feet and you kept shooting it. Thats all. No bullet will instantly kill anything every time.
Also I must wonder about your autopsy results. Penciled with a mushroomed bullet? Makes me think the terminology is incorrect or you have'nt butchered much. That mushroomed bullet from a 378 based 30 did a lot of damage. PERIOD. If you didnt find it thats no reason to gripe about the bullet "penciling" and then showing a perfectly functioning bullet.
I have killed or seen killed about 500-600 animals with that exact bullet at 300 RUM speeds out to 1300+ yds. Anything you poke with 200+ grains of lead in the chest is dead quik regardless of brand. Sorry he didnt fall down instantly like on BOTW but if ya dint poke em in the nerve center they dont bangflop like that.
The pictures you showed even back up the fact that these animals were massively damaged. Bullets dont shed that much weight because they go on a diet. Its cuz they are liquefying internal organs.
I think your bullets worked exactly as advertised and you confused the results because the animal didnt bangflop like on BOTW. Those kills are SHOT PLACEMENT not BERGER SUPERBOOLITS.

 

[cross]

I've taken 7 elk, 10 antelope, and 5 or 6 deer with Bergers and while not every shot gives me a bang-flop I've been very happy with them. I moved from Scirocco's, Accubonds, and Partitions to the Bergers and really gain more confidence in the Bergers all the time. My buddy's been shooting the 210's out of his 300 Winchester and is thrilled with them. I have no explaination for why 1 guy could experience so many malfunctions.

Is this all 1 box of bullets or 1 lot of bullets?

Maybe you got a bad batch?

You're obviously keeping your velocities up where they need to be...damned if I know.

You got me.

If I were you, I'd probably go to the Accubonds too. Confidence is a BIG deal.

Cross