At what point do I give up and rebarrel

[ta406]

What is the oal of the cartridge when the bullet is touching the lands. Try 93 gr. of Retumbo .100 to .125 off the lands. Also 90 gr. of H-1000 at .100 to .125 off . Have you checked the runout on any fired cases? I don't have much neck tension. I have had 10 .338 EDGE barrels and my shooting partner has 2. The Retumbo load shot great in all but one barrel. We have had 3 Lilja's in .338 EDGE and they all shot great and were among the fastest. Gary

OAL with a 300gr Berger is 4.015 touching the lands. I only have a .001 dial indicator and neck runout of a fired case would barely move the needle so I'm guessing a few ten thousandths. My neck diameter of a loaded round with R-P brass is .366. I am going to try a .365 bushing instead of the .364 I had been using.

I have tried 90gr H1000 at .125 off. It shot about an inch at 200 yards according to my notes. The best load I have had was 90gr H1000 with a 300gr Berger .005 off. If I was lucky enough to get a three round group off without a flier, which has only happened a couple times, it would shoot about .25 MOA at 200 yards. I will give that particular Retumbo load a try this weekend. I appreciate your help.

 

[ta406]

A new barrel may be the only solution - it happens. What size groups are we talking about?

A few thoughts come to mind to salvage this one:

Muzzle crown: inspect with a magnifier for any damage or machining flaws in the crown. Could be a non-uniform bore near the muzzle. Perhaps cutting off 2" and re-crowning will help.

Action screw torque: confirm with a torque wrench. Try a different (higher) torque value.

Barrel condition: as others mentioned, remove all fouling - both carbon and copper.

ES: what is the typical muzzle velocity extreme spread? Do you anneal the cases? How do you resize: full length or neck only?

I have bore scoped the barrel a while back and the condition of the chamber, barrel and crown looked good. I could see no signs of carbon build up but since I have access to a bore scope I'll check again.

My best load had an ES of around 15. Not great, I know. This was with a cheap shooting chrony. I have since purchased a Magnetospeed.

I have tried annealing and it didn't make any difference. I use a Redding FL bushing die. My bullet runout on fired cases if usually less than .003. Usually much less.

I usually do my load development in 3 round groups. What If I'm lucky enough to find a load that shot well, I will load up a few more rounds to try the next weekend then it will throw rounds all over the place. Theres no rhyme or reason to it.

 

[ta406]

I have a 30" SS Lilja #6 1:8" 3-groove on my .270 AI Savage 110 LA B&C stock and is quite the shooter. Barrel is so easy to clean and hardly have any copper built up/ fouling.

In addition to the above recommended course of actions, IIWY, I'd call and talk to Dan Lilja for advice. He's pretty easy to talk to and have been very helpful in my personal experience.

Good luck!

Ed

My buddy just built a 6.5 Creedmoor with a Lilja barrel and it shoots lights out.

 

[scottishkat]

Try to get one of your buds at the range to see if you are getting any inconsistent pressure at the fore end when you are behind the gun in various shooting positions. Use a business card and see if there are any possible pressure points. If there are some light pressure areas sand them out with a dowel rod.

Sometimes the Medalist stocks can be more flexible than others. I have 5 of them and one of them gave me fits opened it up a bit and shot way better.

Good luck and shoot straight

Bob

 

[bruce_ventura]

...I have tried 90gr H1000 at .125 off. It shot about an inch at 200 yards according to my notes. The best load I have had was 90gr H1000 with a 300gr Berger .005 off. If I was lucky enough to get a three round group off without a flier, which has only happened a couple times, it would shoot about .25 MOA at 200 yards. I will give that particular Retumbo load a try this weekend. I appreciate your help.

So, groups without fliers are running .25-.5 MOA. What is the group size with fliers?

 

[barefooter56]

OAL with a 300gr Berger is 4.015 touching the lands. I only have a .001 dial indicator and neck runout of a fired case would barely move the needle so I'm guessing a few ten thousandths. My neck diameter of a loaded round with R-P brass is .366. I am going to try a .365 bushing instead of the .364 I had been using.

I have tried 90gr H1000 at .125 off. It shot about an inch at 200 yards according to my notes. The best load I have had was 90gr H1000 with a 300gr Berger .005 off. If I was lucky enough to get a three round group off without a flier, which has only happened a couple times, it would shoot about .25 MOA at 200 yards. I will give that particular Retumbo load a try this weekend. I appreciate your help.

ta406,
Which direction are the "fliers" going when they show up? And are they consistently going in one direction. Is this a hunting rifle or target rifle or both?

 

[ta406]

ta406,
Which direction are the "fliers" going when they show up? And are they consistently going in one direction. Is this a hunting rifle or target rifle or both?

Hunting rifle. I primarily shoot off a Harris bipod and rear bag. I have tried shooting off a bench using a front rest but there were really no changes in my groups. The two target are both 3 shot groups at 200 yards using 300gr OTM's .005 off. .125 off the lands shoots pretty well too baring any fliers. Pretty much everything in-between those 2 seating depths the groups really open up. One target was 90gr H1000 the other was 94gr of Retumbo. I arrived at .005 off the lands after running Bergers seating depth test a couple of times.

These are pretty typical of the POI of the fliers. Once in a great while the flier will go high but they are usually low and/or to the right.

Thanks to everyone for their help. I appreciate it.

 

[Rymart]

Have you checked for donuts in your brass? My 338 LM had this problem. Real easy to do, just drop a bullet into a fired case and see if it gets tight where the full diameter of the bullet meets the neck-shoulder junction.

 

[BountyHunter]

BEFORE you do anything else, change scopes and see if that eliminates the problem.

Your scope may have a major POI shift issue. Sometimes it is not the gun!!

 

[bruce_ventura]

BountyHunter has a good suggestion. I was expecting you to say the flier doubled the group size, or something like that. These fliers are huge for any precision rifle and experienced shooter.

What scope are you using? Have you tried a different one?

 

[barefooter56]

Hunting rifle. I primarily shoot off a Harris bipod and rear bag. I have tried shooting off a bench using a front rest but there were really no changes in my groups. The two target are both 3 shot groups at 200 yards using 300gr OTM's .005 off. .125 off the lands shoots pretty well too baring any fliers. Pretty much everything in-between those 2 seating depths the groups really open up. One target was 90gr H1000 the other was 94gr of Retumbo. I arrived at .005 off the lands after running Bergers seating depth test a couple of times.

These are pretty typical of the POI of the fliers. Once in a great while the flier will go high but they are usually low and/or to the right.

Thanks to everyone for their help. I appreciate it.

ta406,
Fliers like this usually indicate that the shooter is "jerking" the trigger as the crosshair of the scope crosses the previous shots trying to steer the shot into the group. Are you using a rear bag or what?

 

[ta406]

BountyHunter has a good suggestion. I was expecting you to say the flier doubled the group size, or something like that. These fliers are huge for any precision rifle and experienced shooter.

What scope are you using? Have you tried a different one?

The rifle has a Sightron SIII. I do have a Leupold Mark 4 that I will mount up and try this weekend.

 

[ta406]

ta406,
Fliers like this usually indicate that the shooter is "jerking" the trigger as the crosshair of the scope crosses the previous shots trying to steer the shot into the group. Are you using a rear bag or what?

Yes, I have a TAB Gear rear bag. The targets that I showed were with the factory Remington X-Mark trigger. I have just installed a 2.5 lb Timney so I'm going to give that a go. I don't have a trigger pull gauge, but the Timney "feels" like it is the same or even a little stiffer than my factory trigger, but it doesn't have any creep. I contacted Tinmey and they said that I can adjust it in the same manner as a Remington trigger if I decide to lighten it up.

 

[ta406]

Have you checked for donuts in your brass? My 338 LM had this problem. Real easy to do, just drop a bullet into a fired case and see if it gets tight where the full diameter of the bullet meets the neck-shoulder junction.

I did check for donuts. Thanks