Since many here I consider to know just about anything and everything possible concerning shooting at extended ranges, I figgered this would be the place to ask this question....Would it be even remotely possible for ANYONE to consistently make 700-800 shots on running big game animals? In this particular case, there is a guy on another forum claiming he makes these shots on Whitetail deer with ease. I figured lead distance, bullet drop as well as I know how and can't see any way this guy isn't full of it.
Asking the experts..
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3fingervic
Well-Known Member
I'm not buying into it. But I'm no expert.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
I am certainly no expert on running shots on game at long range or any range for that matter but I would say there are not alot of guys out there that have studied and hunted whitetail deer any harder or more seriously then I have. This is my problem with the question posed.
A. IS it possible to make these shots, possible yes, likely NO.
B. To make these shots, the shooter has to be perfect, not only that the target animal must be traveling in a consistant direction, consistant speed and remain at a consistant elevation. In my experience, a whitetail deer WILL Rarely do any of these. That very common "Whitetail Bounce" would cause severe problems making consistant shots. This is when a whitetail is running smoothly and then for no apparent reason, takes a 20 foot bound and then starts running smooth again, then another bound, very inconsistant and IMPOSSIBLE to predict.
C. Most that talk about such feets may have done this once, maybe even twice but then believe they can do it all the time, FOOLISH at best. Generally those that talk all the time DO VERY LITTLE, especially when they are flapping their jaws on a web site with no accountability of any kind, makes super marksmen out of alot of very inexperienced big game hunters.
In real life the guy probably took a running shot at 300 yards and thought it was 600-700 yards. I would really like to see this guy prove he is this good but not on wild game because I do not believe a word of his claims. THe simple reason why, there is no way that a whitetail will behave predictably enough to make these shots consistantly.
More importantly, do not waste your breath debating this guy because its hard to debate fantasy and I am sure about 99% of these claims are likely covered in pixy dust!!!
A. IS it possible to make these shots, possible yes, likely NO.
B. To make these shots, the shooter has to be perfect, not only that the target animal must be traveling in a consistant direction, consistant speed and remain at a consistant elevation. In my experience, a whitetail deer WILL Rarely do any of these. That very common "Whitetail Bounce" would cause severe problems making consistant shots. This is when a whitetail is running smoothly and then for no apparent reason, takes a 20 foot bound and then starts running smooth again, then another bound, very inconsistant and IMPOSSIBLE to predict.
C. Most that talk about such feets may have done this once, maybe even twice but then believe they can do it all the time, FOOLISH at best. Generally those that talk all the time DO VERY LITTLE, especially when they are flapping their jaws on a web site with no accountability of any kind, makes super marksmen out of alot of very inexperienced big game hunters.
In real life the guy probably took a running shot at 300 yards and thought it was 600-700 yards. I would really like to see this guy prove he is this good but not on wild game because I do not believe a word of his claims. THe simple reason why, there is no way that a whitetail will behave predictably enough to make these shots consistantly.
More importantly, do not waste your breath debating this guy because its hard to debate fantasy and I am sure about 99% of these claims are likely covered in pixy dust!!!
Ridge Runner
Well-Known Member
He's full of it, do the math
lets use my 7mm Allen Mag as an example, it runs a 160 accubond at 3575 fps, Time of flight to make 800 yards is .84 sec. It also has 77" of drop at that range 2.75 mil. holdover. So a whitetail runs 35 mph which is 52 fps. so 52x12" = 624"X .84 (TOF)= 524" of total horizontal lead which amounts to 18.25 mils thats more than 1/2 the field of view so at the shot the deer probably wouldn't be in the scope
so this guy would have to hold 2.75 mils high, and 18.25 mils infront of POA to make an 800 yard running shot, let alone the fact that he would have to shoot offhand to keep the lead up and then if he wobbled .00693" off POA he would totaly miss the vitals of a deer.
So its a 1 in a million shot, if he ever did it it was luck nothing more, if he says he does it all the time, he's a liar.
RR
lets use my 7mm Allen Mag as an example, it runs a 160 accubond at 3575 fps, Time of flight to make 800 yards is .84 sec. It also has 77" of drop at that range 2.75 mil. holdover. So a whitetail runs 35 mph which is 52 fps. so 52x12" = 624"X .84 (TOF)= 524" of total horizontal lead which amounts to 18.25 mils thats more than 1/2 the field of view so at the shot the deer probably wouldn't be in the scope
so this guy would have to hold 2.75 mils high, and 18.25 mils infront of POA to make an 800 yard running shot, let alone the fact that he would have to shoot offhand to keep the lead up and then if he wobbled .00693" off POA he would totaly miss the vitals of a deer.
So its a 1 in a million shot, if he ever did it it was luck nothing more, if he says he does it all the time, he's a liar.
RR
liltank
Well-Known Member
Okay, I will agree with all that was said. I will even be a whistle blower and say he is full of himself, but.... and I emphasize but, a properly trained individual with the knowledge of windage and leading with mil-dots could make the shot. It would have to be someone that has extensively trained in shooting moving targets... i.e. sniper/scout training.
These guys are taught how to shoot, when to shoot at extended range at moving targets. Now granted people don't hop and bound like a deer and run near as fast, but they do drive cars. So with that said, yes it is possible. Can it be done consistently... he got lucky! Without knowing his background and training the likely hood of it being true is very slim.
I have to agree with Kirby and his knowledge on whitetails. The only running whitetails I have ever shot (2 and I got lucky) were up close and personal (1st about 20yrds, and 2nd about 50yrds). I touched the round off at the sight of hair and impacted the vitals. That should say something for how fast they run up close.
Tank
These guys are taught how to shoot, when to shoot at extended range at moving targets. Now granted people don't hop and bound like a deer and run near as fast, but they do drive cars. So with that said, yes it is possible. Can it be done consistently... he got lucky! Without knowing his background and training the likely hood of it being true is very slim.
I have to agree with Kirby and his knowledge on whitetails. The only running whitetails I have ever shot (2 and I got lucky) were up close and personal (1st about 20yrds, and 2nd about 50yrds). I touched the round off at the sight of hair and impacted the vitals. That should say something for how fast they run up close.
Tank
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
No!
456
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liltank
Well-Known Member
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
I think your gut feeling is right on! I don't know that there are any experts on THIS subject
....rich700 to 800 yards on the run. Why would you even consider it? Way out of the question on a game animal.
If however the animal was running directly away from or towards the shooter and was 300 or so yards then the shot is possible.
I have taken shots like this in special situations where the was a fence line and the animal was running away from me along the fence line. With a good rest the animal is in big trouble as in this situation no lead is required.
If it was a side on shot however I would not consider it as the lead required would be impossible to work out. Just wait for the animal to stop as they often do, then take the shot.
If however the animal was running directly away from or towards the shooter and was 300 or so yards then the shot is possible.
I have taken shots like this in special situations where the was a fence line and the animal was running away from me along the fence line. With a good rest the animal is in big trouble as in this situation no lead is required.
If it was a side on shot however I would not consider it as the lead required would be impossible to work out. Just wait for the animal to stop as they often do, then take the shot.
I know it's a bit taboo and I never discuss it much, but I hunt with, and consider myself a skilled shooter at running game. I am going to give my opinion on this persons claims, but before I do I'm going to comment on what witnessed running shots I or people I witnessed have made. Some may consider a few of these lucky shots, and I do agree a bit of luck is involved with a successful running shot. The most of which is the "luck" that the animal will continue on a similar direction and a constant speed as you lead the animal and break the trigger.
Most of my experience in this area started as a youth hunting rabbits with a 22lr.
The events most developing of this skill is my annual ND coyote hunting trip.
I have recorded my longest witnessed kill at 505 yards on a coyote running broadside on level terrain. Honestly I feel my odds of making that shot are about 1-100
I witnessed a hunting partner shoot one at aprox 500 yards running straight away. I feel the odds of this shot being repeated are 1-50.
I have shot aproxamatly 100 coyotes in the last 6 years that were all running from 50-350 yards. I am very practiced and the shots ranged from broadside to straight away with most being running at a quartering away position. I feel that at between 50-200 yards on level ground I am about 75% successful with no more than 5 bullets fired with my 223 rem. This is generalized as some shots are much more difficult than others even within 150 yards.
The shots from 200-350 drop dramatically in rates of hits, less than 25% of those coyotes hit when 10 bullets are fired.
Now there are a few things that can really throw off even a practice running game shooter, obviously a target with eratic movements, and direction changes. A target that is crossing broadside and going either up or down slope. This is very difficult because not only does the lead nead to be correct but also the gain or loss of elevation as the target advances.
The one great thing about all this practice is shooting deer on the move becomes a much easier task. in the last 4 years I have taken 3 shots at running big game. I shot an antelope thru both lungs at 150 yards running broadside with the second shot. The first was a complete pull off that was a known miss when the trigger broke.
The second animal was a large whitetail buck at aprox 85 -100 yards also running broadside that was shot thru the shoulders with the first shot.
Like some of the others stated shooting any deer at over 500 yards on a steady run would be possible, but not likely, and defintely not reapeatable on a consistant basis. The biggest problem is yardage estimations that would need to be spot on, Not many running deer alow time or the stability to RF. Leads at that distance, a guess due to speed, angle, and target irregulariuties.
If this guy is truly skilled I would say he would not be batting much over 3% at the stated distances
Most of my experience in this area started as a youth hunting rabbits with a 22lr.
The events most developing of this skill is my annual ND coyote hunting trip.
I have recorded my longest witnessed kill at 505 yards on a coyote running broadside on level terrain. Honestly I feel my odds of making that shot are about 1-100
I witnessed a hunting partner shoot one at aprox 500 yards running straight away. I feel the odds of this shot being repeated are 1-50.
I have shot aproxamatly 100 coyotes in the last 6 years that were all running from 50-350 yards. I am very practiced and the shots ranged from broadside to straight away with most being running at a quartering away position. I feel that at between 50-200 yards on level ground I am about 75% successful with no more than 5 bullets fired with my 223 rem. This is generalized as some shots are much more difficult than others even within 150 yards.
The shots from 200-350 drop dramatically in rates of hits, less than 25% of those coyotes hit when 10 bullets are fired.
Now there are a few things that can really throw off even a practice running game shooter, obviously a target with eratic movements, and direction changes. A target that is crossing broadside and going either up or down slope. This is very difficult because not only does the lead nead to be correct but also the gain or loss of elevation as the target advances.
The one great thing about all this practice is shooting deer on the move becomes a much easier task. in the last 4 years I have taken 3 shots at running big game. I shot an antelope thru both lungs at 150 yards running broadside with the second shot. The first was a complete pull off that was a known miss when the trigger broke.
The second animal was a large whitetail buck at aprox 85 -100 yards also running broadside that was shot thru the shoulders with the first shot.
Like some of the others stated shooting any deer at over 500 yards on a steady run would be possible, but not likely, and defintely not reapeatable on a consistant basis. The biggest problem is yardage estimations that would need to be spot on, Not many running deer alow time or the stability to RF. Leads at that distance, a guess due to speed, angle, and target irregulariuties.
If this guy is truly skilled I would say he would not be batting much over 3% at the stated distances
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
I'd like to add something to my first post:
:blipelt
Well-Known Member
What does he shoot. Typical long range rifle is heavier. Before I started long range shooting running shots were the norm for me(notice I said shots not hits). Predator hunting sure did help hone my ability. Swinging that heavy 28" barrel is tough to do precisely. Before you throw the flag ask him about his setup. You might get the answer you are looking for.
Brent
Brent
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Moman
Well-Known Member
Shenanigans. LOL. I'm not the most experience LR shot on the block but know enough about it to consider that a lot goes into the shot. Analyzing conditions and making the necessary adjustments. I doubt this guy fully understands most of what it takes. Maybe got lucky on a Hail Mary one time.
