Are the .338s becoming pointless?

[Pdvdh]

Chit happens period. Don't discard the 284/30 caliber options for big Hooved critters just from one or a few mishaps.

I don't. It's the consistent relative under-performance, compared to .338s. Seen it too often to ignore some obvious differences in the expediency with which the game is disabled abd dispatched. It becomes apparent on the BIG big game. On deer, no difference.

I don't discard them. They kill ground squirrels very effectively, even when the bullet is placed into the earth in front of them.

 

[Snowboy]

I don't. It's the consistent relative under-performance, compared to .338s. Seen it too often to ignore some obvious differences in the expediency with which the game is disabled abd dispatched. It becomes apparent on the BIG big game. On deer, no difference.

I don't discard them. They kill ground squirrels very effectively, even when the bullet is placed into the earth in front of them.

Just one question- How did Jack O'Connor ever survive with a .270 win.?

 

[Snowboy]

Just one question- How did Jack O'Connor ever survive with a .270 win.?

Next question-How many hunters were killed or wounded by big bears before the modern crop of .338 win Norma or 340 Weatherby magnums?

 

[Pdvdh]

Just one question- How did Jack O'Connor ever survive with a .270 win.?

Ask the ones that didn't survive. The dead don't talk.

1 in a million odds are terrific, unless you're the one.

 

[Snowboy]

Ask the ones that didn't survive. The dead don't talk.

1 in a million odds are terrific, unless you're the one.

I am a risk taker or I would not spend so much time in the outdoors alone. I would be quite comfortable with my .300 magnum.

 

[VLD Pilot]

Again...Shot placement is King. Shoot a Big Bull Moose quartering toward shooter can spell trouble even with the 338s. It's a simple issue of taking the shot when the animal presents the best shot. Shooting at a quartering too hunter tells me either the hunter didn't want to lose the opportunity of getting the shot off at the moose or he knew he could thread the needle and hit exactly where he wanted. Obviously, both were the case. Ya, a big 300 grain 338 bullet in front of 100 grains of powder probably would have been better but what would have been best is a better shot opportunity. The 300 Win magnum with today's premium bullets WILL kill big Bull Moose effectively when shot placement is considered first. Put it this way... Your not undergunned by no means with it for Moose. Period. If you think you are, you better shoot it alot more.

 

[Pdvdh]

The 46yr old man that was killed by the brown bear in Hope, AK two months ago took risks also. Risk costs a man nothing, until it does...

Thank God we live in a free country. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and choices. We make decisions throughout life, and live with the consequences.

My cartridge choices are based on where I hunt, what I hunt, and 44 years of experiences and observations of my own, and others that live and hunt here. I'm comfortable with my choices. I minimize risk, preferring life.

 

[Wolf76]

Was told 180gr Core Lokt. But I was not there...
One tends to negate the other after the moose gets away, wounded, for many hunters.
I would carry more than your 300WSM on 1,200lb brown bear. You can kill them with a .223 if you brain them. Or they can kill you if things go bad.

I think we actually agree more than we disagree. I look at any situation/gun choice as marginal, adequate, optimal. In this case the BULLET wasn't up to the task. A 300 WM can easily push heavy bullets fast because it has the powder capacity to do so. The 300s are more than adequate with the right bullet and placement. The big 33s just bring more to the party.

Attached is a factory partition load from nosler. It still has more than 2000 foot pounds of energy at the distance referenced. My guns all eat handloads and would give much better terminal ballistics.
BTW: who the heck went on moose hunt with core lokts? IMO, very irresponsible.

 

[VLD Pilot]

The 46yr old man that was killed by the brown bear in Hope, AK two months ago took risks also. Risk costs a man nothing, until it does...

Thank God we live in a free country. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and choices. We make decisions throughout life, and live with the consequences.

My cartridge choices are based on where I hunt, what I hunt, and 44 years of experiences and observations of my own, and others that live and hunt here. I'm comfortable with my choices. I minimize risk, preferring life.

After my last post I'll also say there's no such thing as overkill. I'm with you, bigger is always better.

 

[VLD Pilot]

I think we actually agree more than we disagree. I look at any situation/gun choice as marginal, adequate, optimal. In this case the BULLET wasn't up to the task. A 300 WM can easily push heavy bullets fast because it has the powder capacity to do so. The 300s are more than adequate with the right bullet and placement. The big 33s just bring more to the party. View attachment 214227
Attached is a factory partition load from nosler. It still has more than 2000 foot pounds of energy at the distance referenced. My guns all eat handloads and would give much better terminal ballistics.
BTW: who the heck went on moose hunt with core lokts? IMO, very irresponsible.

Definitely the choice in ammunition left alot to be desired for certain. The Nosler partition is an excellent choice.

 

[LRNut]

338 Win Mag is the least powerful .338 I've used and seen used on moose. So I can't speak to anything lesser. I killed one young bull at 761yds with it. Anyhow, it's a very worthy moose and big bear cartridge, in my opinion. Quite popular in Alaska in an off-the-shelf factory rifle.

I've seen moose killed with lesser calibers. It can be done quite handily with good bullets and good shot placement. But the 338s almost always impact with greater authority than 7mms and .308s. At least that's been my consistent observation. There have been times where it's made the difference between celebration and disappointment. Our moose get pretty darn big - of the Alaska-Yukon variety.

I have shot four Alaska-Yukon moose in AK and the Yukon at ranges from 50 yards to 325. First three were with a .338 WM but last one was with a .375H&H. In the .338 WM I have used 225 Hornady and 225 Barnes TSX. The .375 was a 300 gr Swift. Also shot one moose in BC with a .338 using 225 TSX. My last moose was stretching it for my .375 - I practiced at 300 only a few times and he was at 325; my hit was a bit high. Required follow ups.

I have only shot one animal with a Core-lokt - a deer. Bullet was perfectly mushroomed. I would say it is at least as good in terms of terminal ballistics as a Berger, of which there is no shortage of fans here.

Bullet placement is more important that caliber in my limited experience. I wouldn't hesitate to hunt moose with a .30-06 and 180 to 200 grain bullets but I probably never will given the other rifles I have.

 

[Pdvdh]

Again...Shot placement is King. Shoot a Big Bull Moose quartering toward shooter can spell trouble even with the 338s. It's a simple issue of taking the shot when the animal presents the best shot. Shooting at a quartering too hunter tells me either the hunter didn't want to lose the opportunity of getting the shot off at the moose or he knew he could thread the needle and hit exactly where he wanted. Obviously, both were the case. Ya, a big 300 grain 338 bullet in front of 100 grains of powder probably would have been better but what would have been best is a better shot opportunity. The 300 Win magnum with today's premium bullets WILL kill big Bull Moose effectively when shot placement is considered first. Put it this way... Your not undergunned by no means with it for Moose. Period. If you think you are, you better shoot it alot more.

I can kill a moose with pea shooter, when everything goes well.
Things don't always go well, this recent case being just one example. Shooter not one bit happy. His experience a big disappointment. Bullet placement was reasonable. It wasn't a gut shot. The bullet was headed toward vital organs. Cartridge and bullet weren't up to the task at hand on an animal of that size. We can talk risk taking and odds of success on and on and on.
7 out of 10 times, his bullet placement may have done the job. With a .338 Win Mag and a 250gr bullet, odds improve based on my multiple observations of moose shot with differing cartridge/bullet combinations.

You need not agree, but I'm confident a majority experienced hunting moose would. It's most common for people to be defensive about their personal equipment. They have ownership in it. They're invested. That doesn't mean the differing equipment is equivalent, right? Can you accept that different equipment is indeed different? It may be perfect for you, good enough for you, but it isn't the same. It is different.

After all the time, expense, and effort (travelling 4,500 miles in this case of the failed 300 Win Mag), I will always select equipment with the goal of improving my odds for success. I like feeling good after the hunt, rather than dejected.

 

[Pdvdh]

I have shot four Alaska-Yukon moose in AK and the Yukon at ranges from 50 yards to 325. First three were with a .338 WM but last one was with a .375H&H. In the .338 WM I have used 225 Hornady and 225 Barnes TSX. The .375 was a 300 gr Swift. Also shot one moose in BC with a .338 using 225 TSX. My last moose was stretching it for my .375 - I practiced at 300 only a few times and he was at 325; my hit was a bit high. Required follow ups.

I have only shot one animal with a Core-lokt - a deer. Bullet was perfectly mushroomed. I would say it is at least as good in terms of terminal ballistics as a Berger, of which there is no shortage of fans here.

Bullet placement is more important that caliber in my limited experience. I wouldn't hesitate to hunt moose with a .30-06 and 180 to 200 grain bullets but I probably never will given the other rifles I have.

Nice. Glad you had those successes. It's a lot of fun, more so when it ends positively.

I've taken the debate to one of the largest game animals in North America. It's a huge animal. Starts to push the capabilities of folks' pet rifles, whether they understand that or not. It's no longer deer, antelope, black bear, hogs, etc.

Only other compatible sized animals here are brown bear, polar bear, and bison. I recommend bigger is better for all of them.

 

[LRNut]

Nice. Glad you had those successes. It's a lot of fun, more so when it ends positively.

I've taken the debate to one of the largest game animals in North America. It's a huge animal. Starts to push the capabilities of folks' pet rifles, whether they understand that or not. It's no longer deer, antelope, black bear, hogs, etc.

Only other compatible sized animals here are brown bear, polar bear, and bison. I recommend bigger is better for all of them.

I shot a black bear in MN with a 180 gr cup and core bullet; he was facing me head on. Lots of people like to say a black bear is no different than a deer. That bear ran off and a few minutes later I heard the death moan. No blood - not a single drop. Searched until dark. Came back the next day and started sectioning the area (it was bordered by a creek on one side and an ATV trail on the other). After about four hours and 400 black stumps later I found the bear dead. The bullet barely penetrated his lungs; lots of muscle there, even more so on a grizzly and even more so on brown bears, both of which I shot using a .338 WM - it truly is the all around rifle for AK IMO.

As for shot angles, I distinctly recall my Yukon bull, the biggest I have killed, was quartering toward me at 285. Shot once, he spun around, shot again, and he went down. My BC moose was facing me at about 150 yards - dropped at the shot. The rest were all broadside. Again, these were all with a .338 WM.