Ar15 caliber that uses large rifle primers

[Carlos88]

How fast do you push a 130 grain in the Grendel with a 20" barrel?

Well from what I can tell with a 24" barrel about 2500. According to Nosler.

 

[cohunt]

Well from what I can tell with a 24" barrel about 2500. According to Nosler.

I'd wonder what handloads would get. Hard to beat what I'm getting in my 6.8 though....lots of guys will say ts over pressure, but it was pressure trace tested to be right at/near spcII max. I can't get these speeds with any other 130 grain bullets though, just the 2 I stated earlier so it's pretty specific to certain brass/bullets/powder.

I feel that 6.5g and 6.8spc are so close it ends up being a personal choice.

 

[snox801]

How fast do you push a 130 grain in the Grendel with a 20" barrel?

Couldn't tell you because I never tried. I used the 123gr for a hood while but was never happy with its on game performance past 200 yards. Think both cases shine around the 90-100 gr bullet for the shorter distance.
Steel or paper 600 plus different story.
Just pointing out that it does have a slight edge in all things I pointed out when comparing them. It's very close and honestly not worth worrying about. And as stated sharing components ie bullets makes a lot of sense.

 

[cohunt]

Couldn't tell you because I never tried. I used the 123gr for a hood while but was never happy with its on game performance past 200 yards. Think both cases shine around the 90-100 gr bullet for the shorter distance.
Steel or paper 600 plus different story.
Just pointing out that it does have a slight edge in all things I pointed out when comparing them. It's very close and honestly not worth worrying about. And as stated sharing components ie bullets makes a lot of sense.

Where does it have an edge?

 

[snox801]

Yes really I can't think of a single thing the 6.8 does better. Grendel is flatter, faster, less drift and higher sectional density. Also shorter case so much more useful for heavier bullets. Especially when talking hunting Bullets.
Although small the Grendel is better

These things.

 

[snox801]

Let me say that when I say edge neither has a edge for the shorter 300 yard and in distance zero difference between them
. That being said if one day he wants to
Steven it's legs and shoot paper or steel
600-1000 the Grendel walks away with the ability to do so. Plus you can get amazing factory ammo for them. I wouldn't hunt with that same ammo but most guys launch the 123 eld at targets as I do and the lighter 100gr on game.
Again splitting hairs but when I said it beats the 6.8 it does I never said how much
. Then I responded with the flatter and less drift for reason why when told It wasn't.
I thought that was a reasonable response.

 

[cohunt]

Let me say that when I say edge neither has a edge for the shorter 300 yard and in distance zero difference between them
. That being said if one day he wants to
Steven it's legs and shoot paper or steel
600-1000 the Grendel walks away with the ability to do so. Plus you can get amazing factory ammo for them. I wouldn't hunt with that same ammo but most guys launch the 123 eld at targets as I do and the lighter 100gr on game.
Again splitting hairs but when I said it beats the 6.8 it does I never said how much
. Then I responded with the flatter and less drift for reason why when told It wasn't.
I thought that was a reasonable response.

No need to get defensive, im looking for real world numbers though so we can actually compare which one shoots flatter/faster/less drift-- like I said, they are both really close... the heavier bullets will have better BC numbers for longer paper shots for sure.

Can you post some actual numbers so we can compare directly?

My long range paper round is from my 20" bull barrel. 130vld classic hunter( 1.210" bullet length) berger has this with a good bc of .445(g1)/.236(g7)-- it's going 2756 at the muzzle.
Can you list your paper punching load ?

 

[snox801]

I will run some in applied. I will
Use factory loaded rounds as close to weight as I can because we know how handloads can sway numbers. Some folks feel comfortable way over pressure some run them mild so I think factory is a good comparison.

 

[cohunt]

I will run some in applied. I will
Use factory loaded rounds as close to weight as I can because we know how handloads can sway numbers. Some folks feel comfortable way over pressure some run them mild so I think factory is a good comparison.

Well, that's one way to do it so we can see numbers but 6.8spc doesn't really have any factory long range paper punching ammo. Do you not believe that my load has been pressure trace tested? You can use any of your hand load data to compare, I trust your jandloading abities. I honestly haven't shot factory ammo in any rifle I own after barrel break in. Isn't that why people handload? To attain the best accuracy and ballistics they can from their rifle.

You brought up the "if he wants to shoot paper out to 1000 yards" comment-- I'd never use factory ammo in either round at 1000 yards-- or doubt I'd hit paper with factory ammo accuracy

 

[snox801]

Here this is from hornady's website
Both are the hornady custom line of ammo.
The 6.8 is loaded with the 120gr sst
The 6.5 is loaded with the 123gr sst.
Pretty close comparison. This was as far out of a distance as i could get. But we all know that the farther out the better the 6.5 is gonna do for the same weight bullet.
I choose the 123 over day the 100 gr as it was more common and you shoot 130 which I'm sure is common out of the 6.8.
First one on the left os the Grendel which has a slightly faster starting speed.

 

[snox801]

Well, that's one way to do it so we can see numbers but 6.8spc doesn't really have any factory long range paper punching ammo. Do you not believe that my load has been pressure trace tested? You can use any of your hand load data to compare, I trust your jandloading abities. I honestly haven't shot factory ammo in any rifle I own after barrel break in. Isn't that why people handload? To attain the best accuracy and ballistics they can from their rifle.

What do you consider pressure traced. I also trust your ability and you Amy be correct the 6.8 may be one of those cartridges that shines when hand loaded like the 6.5 swede.
My pony was that all rifles are different and everyone has a different threshold of how much pressure they think is safe. Hence why I like factory ammo that has actually pressure testing.
Both the hornady ones where sst bullets so neither I would consider long range bullets but also not terrible.
My personal loads are 97gr going 2980fps out of a 16" tube. In my grendel. I saw no pressure and could easily break 3 k but that is where my ladder ended and it shot one ragged hole. Which had me happy I'm not professional shooter that for sure. I use my 6.5 for thermal so max pint blank range is key and I feel the small case lends to the 85-100gr Bullets being the best imo. I shoot the 123 eld at paper and a slower and softer load of 2480fps.

 

[cohunt]

What do you consider pressure traced. I also trust your ability and you Amy be correct the 6.8 may be one of those cartridges that shines when hand loaded like the 6.5 swede.
My pony was that all rifles are different and everyone has a different threshold of how much pressure they think is safe. Hence why I like factory ammo that has actually pressure testing.
Both the hornady ones where sst bullets so neither I would consider long range bullets but also not terrible.
My personal loads are 97gr going 2980fps out of a 16" tube. In my grendel. I saw no pressure and could easily break 3 k but that is where my ladder ended and it shot one ragged hole. Which had me happy I'm not professional shooter that for sure. I use my 6.5 for thermal so max pint blank range is key and I feel the small case lends to the 85-100gr Bullets being the best imo. I shoot the 123 eld at paper and a slower and softer load of 2480fps.

This is the pressure trace system

Recreational Software, Inc.: PressureTrace & Accessories

It uses a strain gauge glued to the barrel to check chamber pressures.

As far a weights, no the 130 is not normal for the 6.8- it's generally considered too heavy- but we came across these 2 bullets with this 1 powder that really shines ( that's why we reload, is it not? To find the best of the best)

You had brought up the "out to 1000" yards this on why the 6.5 shines over the 6.8. I'd put my 130vld load against any 6.5g load out that far.

I know, this is always how the 6.5 vs 6.8 saga goes. Mine is better than yours is discussion. I like guys to see real world numbers of what people actually shoot--- most of us here are reloaded so I wanted to use those numbers. Often times for hunting distances out to 300y the 6.8 will just barely eek out over the 6.5 for energy numbers ( not always) and out further, the 6.5 gets some legs over the 6.8.
As I said, it really comes down to personal preference as they really are close.
My 130 load out of my 16" is 2570 if you want to crunch those numbers for comparisons since you are shooting a 16" 6.5g
I honestly don't care how they come out in the end-- I just like guys to see that they really are super close to each other for hunting purposes, and at longer paper punching the 6.8 can hold its own regardless of the internet info.

I'm not sure the " load for same caliber" really comes into play too much as the 6.5g tends to use lighter bullets than any other 6.5 ( like the cm or prc, etc) and the 6.8spc uses lighter bullets than other .277 cartridges ( like the 270w, etc)
Thanks for taking time to crunch numbers on factory ammo ( my actual mv from the 120ssy factory ammo is 2476 from a 16" bbl- pretty close to the factory specs of 2460) and hopefully you'll do the same for your handloads vs mine so people can make up their own minds on apples and oranges ;-)

 

[snox801]

I think both are great and really shine for what they are. I would say if you know you will never shoot past 300 the 6.8 could have some intangibles. More frontal area for sure larger bore per same bullet weight which means it could use a shorter barrel. My opinion is that it's probably a better hunting round out to 500 but after that the 6.5 probably takes over a 130gr 6.5 will have a fare better bc and the short case lends to the longer vld bullets.
Wait did I just talk myself into a 6.8 for short range. Lol
I think you are right it's a crap shoot and I don't think either is better in real world terms just preference. To be fair I dragged my feet for years thinking the 6mm grendel would be the cats *** for an ar size round. Didn't want to spend the coin for a 6mm turbo so I bought a 6.5 and the next year bam 6mm arc.

 

[snox801]

So your bullet starts to beat my 97 at 650 yards in drop. This is applied app. But boy are they close.
Yours is in the left mine is on the right. Hope I did those right as I did them fast.