Ar-15

[IdahoJoe]

Forgive me if this topic has been hashed to death but out of curiosity how many of you have Ar-15 type rifles and what brand and caliber do you like best?

 

[sdkidaho]

In the market for one myself. Going to start out with a 5.56 (.223) model from POF.

POF-USA Patriot Ordnance Factory, Inc.

 

[fj40mojo]

Used to be that it was cheaper to put one together yourself from various parts available and arrive at what you want for a fair price. Now it seems that there are so many mfgs out there that someone somewhere offers just what you want. This is kind of a vague question since the options are so broad. What do you want to do with the rifle, what kind of performance are you expecting, what calibers are most interesting to you, are you into the tacticool thing or are you looking for a long range varmint/hunting rifle?

Mine is a Bushmaster in .223 with an A3 Flat top upper, mid length 16" DPMS 1:9 barrel free floated in a quad rail fore end, YH Phantom flash suppressor, MagPul BUIS-MOE pistol grip, trigger guard and butt stock, EoTech 512, JP trigger spring kit w/milspec FCG tuned by yours truely. I shoot 3 gun and other tactical type shoots with it. It goes bang everytime with my reloads and hits if I do my part MOM from 0 to 600yds.

 

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

In the market for one myself. Going to start out with a 5.56 (.223) model from POF.

POF-USA Patriot Ordnance Factory, Inc.

I would consider other options if I was you these guys are dicks tried dealing with them a few times.

 

[IdahoJoe]

Thanks for the info.

I am thinking 223 or 5.56 NATO possibly something in 6.5 ______. The gun would probably get used for plinking or long range ground squirrel/coyote and looking cool in the gun safe.

I have a friend who recommended rock river arms and right now I am looking at there 20 in varmint EOP. I am not sure on the time line as I still would like a good bolt action deer rifle and I have a bolt action 223 that shoots as good as I do.

 

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

If you want a good AR that will do it all you should look at the Lewis Machine and tool MRP. Its the best thing out there right now in my opnion. It offers the user the ability to switch from 5.56, 6.8spc, 204 ruger in a matter of seconds by swaping barrels, and bolts. They have about 20 diffrent barrels to choose from and there are a few custom shops that will cut you any barrel in any chamber you want. I would also expect to see the 30AAC comming soon from them as well. Also their system can be both DI and piston operated.

Next on my list is any rifle from Bravo company, Daniel Defence, colt, Noviskie, LWRC or knights armerment.

I pass on all the other stuff its not up to par in my opnion to many parts out of spec, thats rifles like busmaster, POF, remingtion(bushmaster), Olympic, RRA, CMGG, DPMS, and stag. Ya they work sure but I would not trust my life or my hunt to it!

 

[CLICKBANGBANG]

Thanks for the info.

I am thinking 223 or 5.56 NATO possibly something in 6.5 ______. The gun would probably get used for plinking or long range ground squirrel/coyote and looking cool in the gun safe.

I have a friend who recommended rock river arms and right now I am looking at there 20 in varmint EOP. I am not sure on the time line as I still would like a good bolt action deer rifle and I have a bolt action 223 that shoots as good as I do.

There are a metric ton of AR manufactures. Stag, RRA, Noveski, BCM, DPMS, Daniel Defence, and Bushmaster all make heavy barrel varmint/ target AR-15s.

RRA are good to go, but I would advise against the EOP upper. The A4 upper is much more desired if you ever went to sell it. And even though it is taller, the rail section is short. With the AR-15, the scope usually needs to be suspended over the handgaurd a little. Most guys (not that many, most run cantilevered scope mounts) that run tall rings have to put the ring on the last rail section and push the scope all the way forward till the turrent bell almost touches the ring. See in this next pick (taken for something else) at how rings on the upper would force the scope back, and ruining th correct eye relief. Look at the regular upper and the LaRue Tactical SPR / M4 Scope Mount QD LT-104. Larue is top of the line mounts.

I do have a RRA 20" varmint upper in .223. It is a great upper and barrel. My gun will shoot M193 junk ammo 10 round groups around 1.4" at 100 yards and is easily sub MOA with quality factory reloads. I have just gotten around to loading up some Hornady 68 grain match and have not finished developing the load.

If you do get the RRA, also re stake the gas key screws. They known for light staking. If you have any more questions, let me know. I'm new to long range but not to AR-15s. I have a few around.

 

[CLICKBANGBANG]

If you want a good AR that will do it all you should look at the Lewis Machine and tool MRP. Its the best thing out there right now in my opnion. It offers the user the ability to switch from 5.56, 6.8spc, 204 ruger in a matter of seconds by swaping barrels, and bolts. They have about 20 diffrent barrels to choose from and there are a few custom shops that will cut you any barrel in any chamber you want. I would also expect to see the 30AAC comming soon from them as well. Also their system can be both DI and piston operated.

Next on my list is any rifle from Bravo company, Daniel Defence, colt, Noviskie, LWRC or knights armerment.

I pass on all the other stuff its not up to par in my opnion to many parts out of spec, thats rifles like busmaster, POF, remingtion(bushmaster), Olympic, RRA, CMGG, DPMS, and stag. Ya they work sure but I would not trust my life or my hunt to it!

You do mention some top tier companies but why do you count out the rest of these companies? I have BCM, and Colt parts but have yet to find a problem with DPMS, Spikes, RRA, and POF. Haven't used any of Bushies stuff besides small parts. Have you had bad parts come to you from some of these others that you pass on? The DEA and FBI both have five year contracts with RRA. Not trying to call you out but am just interested if you have had bad parts.

I would also give a -1 to Olympic Arms because I have seen friends that have had issues with them on two different guns.

 

[IdahoJoe]

Thanks for the information. Those are nice looking set ups.

Right Now RRA has there predator pursuit rifles on sale and I am trying to decide between that and the Varminter. Do you like the half quad rails.

 

[CLICKBANGBANG]

Thanks for the information. Those are nice looking set ups.

Right Now RRA has there predator pursuit rifles on sale and I am trying to decide between that and the Varminter. Do you like the half quad rails.

What would you mount on the railed handguards? I don't like unused rail space. It's hard on the hands. I've got one gun that looks like a Christmas tree with all the crap hung on it. But it is using a Magpul MOE handguard. If they are the vented version it would help get the heat off the barrel. One thing I don't like about my gun is the free float hand guard traps the heat against the barrel. But the standard tube has a sling stud and it does make an easy spot to hook a bipod to.

The predator pursuit rifles are nice guns. They are a bit lighter from the smaller barrel contour. And if you are really going to carry it around the field, this might be the way to go.

My varmint gun is so front heavy that I put a butt stock weight in to keep it from balancing on the bipod. It is 13 lbs without the weight unloaded and 16 lbs with.

 

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

CLICKBANGBANG
Spikes if GTG! As for the others I consider them a last resort they are not mil spec!
I also think you will find that the FBI and DEA no longer have contracts with the companies you mentioned.
The DEA is feilding the LWRC rifles at current in Columbia and Afghanistan and they had some issues at first but LWRC has stood by their product and made it right.
It is a simple fact that you get what you pay for and the rifles I listed do not and will not hold up under continued firing situations. It has been proven time and time again.

 

[CLICKBANGBANG]

CLICKBANGBANG
Spikes if GTG! As for the others I consider them a last resort they are not mil spec!
I also think you will find that the FBI and DEA no longer have contracts with the companies you mentioned.
The DEA is feilding the LWRC rifles at current in Columbia and Afghanistan and they had some issues at first but LWRC has stood by their product and made it right.
It is a simple fact that you get what you pay for and the rifles I listed do not and will not hold up under continued firing situations. It has been proven time and time again.

Ok. I will defiantly agree that you do get what you pay for. I have seen cheapo parts fail many times. And when you find out where they came from, you're surprised it lasted as long as it did under the conditions. I have friends that have guns that I wouldn't use as door stops. I am a huge advocator of at least mill spec bolt carrier groups on "battle guns". And for a working gun (three letter agency or mil), are a no brainer necessity.

But are mill spec BCG a must in a prairie dog gun like the OP and my varmint gun? Or is a commercial spec stock ok for punching paper. And is a HPT, MPI barrel necessary for a range toy? Does the average Joe public need a gun that will stand up to full auto fire combat load ammo dumps? Or would a well built/ tested Frankingun stand up two what he ask out of it. And do (or can) I spend that much money on an AR-15 (read toy)?

Speaking on the price scale AR-15 can really very in cost just like they do in quality. Do I really need a top tier mil spec $1,200 upper assembly, or would a $500 DPMS M4 upper work? LWRC make exelet guns. But the M6A2 can go for $1,600 with no add on accessories, or optics and mounts. And when it comes down to it, I can't hang with that crowd. I would love to have a Larue OSR 5.56 but it's not in the cards. I have finished a few different guns, but it takes me years to save for parts and finish them out the way I want.

I have one gun that does not carry any of the manufactures parts you have listed. It has more than 5k rounds through it half of which were in (3) weekend carbine courses. In some of the courses, you shoot 500 rounds just a few hours. Three days in a row. It has yet to fail in any way and has become a very trustworthy gun. I wouldn't take it to the sand box (I'm not mil). But for what I will ever do with it, it works great.

Just some thoughts as to whether a top tier gun is what everyone needs. I think allot of us run around perfectly happy with our middle of the arena AR-15s and will never know the difference. Maybe due to price or we just keep what works.

And you are right. After re looking, the DEAs contract with RRA ran out in 2008. I think they took a hair over 5,000 ARs. But the FBI were looking at the LAR-40 in 09. But I'm not sure if they ever went threw with it.

This is my truck/ ranch gun that I mentioned had been through a bit.

 

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

Great counter points!

I guess I would have to say no the avarage guy could get buy.

But to that I would say why spend 1350 (Thats the Gander Moutain price for a Bushmaster AR here in NY)

When you can spend 1249 and get a top of the line Carbine from a teir 1 company like Daniel Defence and never ever have to worry about the weapon breaking EVER.

Daniel Defense M4 Carbine 223 W/Omega X Rail Handguard & Grip

This link also has the best prices you will ever find on the net so use it wiseley

Here is the link the the AR chart
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

 

[sdkidaho]

I pass on all the other stuff its not up to par in my opnion to many parts out of spec, thats rifles like busmaster, POF, remingtion(bushmaster), Olympic, RRA, CMGG, DPMS, and stag. Ya they work sure but I would not trust my life or my hunt to it!

I would consider other options if I was you these guys are dicks tried dealing with them a few times.

Can you give some details on what you had to deal with them for? Was it a Customer Service issue, or a purchase issue, or...?

Just wondering what all you are basing your opinion of the POF on. I am certainly no expert on AR's and I have heard great things about DD, Noveske, LaRue, LMT and POF, so I'm wondering if you dislike them because of your experience or are you basing it upon more than just your own interaction with that company?

Any one individual can have a bad experience with a company, and then say "Hey, these guys suck! Don't get their stuff!", and so I try to find out more detail to see if it's an isolated case versus a common trend, whatever it may be, and in the case of POF, I have seen far more good than bad so I am definitely curious to hear your story.