Anybody regret NOT going 338?

Not trying to start another ****ing match, but just how is the 7mm not as good as the .30 caliber. The 7mm has a flatter trajectory, higher BC, and better wind deflection than the .30 caliber projectile of equal mass (weight)...

As far as accuracy is concerned, the Berger 7mm 180 VLD will be better at long range than a .30 Berger 185 VLD...If you compare grain-for-grain...

I'm serious, I want to know how it is not as good.

I'm not trying to be difficult, or "trolling" for reactions. I'm on a serious level now.

I think it's worth the discussion, since everyone wants to discredit the 7mm calibers in here.

Keep in mind, I do own .30 caliber rifles as well, so I don't dislike either one.
 
Wow, that sure makes a strong point for an edge.

How would recoil be in a 14-15 lb edge with a ported type break be? I have ordered CSR muscle break already for the build.

If possible how would it compare to 11 lb 270 wsm with no break @ max loads shooting 140 gr pills?

I think I can give you a good idea, two of my favorite rounds are a 270 WSM and a 338 RUM and I have Muscle brakes on both, the RUM is pushing a 300gr bullet 2800fps and it's just shy of 13 lbs and the WSM will push a 140 3350fps and it's either 10lbs or 14 lbs depending on which barrel and stock I have on it.
The 338 RUM still give you a shove but it's sweet to shoot because it's not sharp and a guy can burn some ammo, if I take the brake of the WSM it's recoil is sharp and I'd say less comfortable to shoot than the RUM but it's braked usually as well and then it's a ***** cat.

Just my opinion but if you want something that will step up from your 270 WSM noticeably and compliment it build a 338 Edge or similar, I'm shooting the 165's from my 270 WSM and it'll take apart anything I put it on out to 1000-1100 yards and then if it's blowing hard or I'm wanting to do something with authority I pull the big gun, the two videos contrasted above really tells the story of why so many of use also have a big stick we can pull gun)
 
Not trying to start another ****ing match, but just how is the 7mm not as good as the .30 caliber. The 7mm has a flatter trajectory, higher BC, and better wind deflection than the .30 caliber projectile of equal mass (weight)...

As far as accuracy is concerned, the Berger 7mm 180 VLD will be better at long range than a .30 Berger 185 VLD...If you compare grain-for-grain...

I'm serious, I want to know how it is not as good.

I'm not trying to be difficult, or "trolling" for reactions. I'm on a serious level now.

I think it's worth the discussion, since everyone wants to discredit the 7mm calibers in here.

Keep in mind, I do own .30 caliber rifles as well, so I don't dislike either one.


What I want to know is why would anyone compare the heavier end offering of one caliber to the lighter offering of another? Pull out the limits of the weight and compare best BC offerings and weight to best BC offerings to weight for each caliber. Then you will not be able to claim better BC, or energy for the smaller caliber by imposed limits. Why handicap either caliber? Load them up and let them shine with whatever they have to bring to the table. No limiting rules, just facts.

The best day of my life was when I graduated from bracket handicapped drag racing to heads up pro tree. Some of the best racing we did was the quick eights on a Saturday night. We had one rule, " Run What Ya Brung, and Hope You Brung Enough."

Jeff
 
Not trying to start another ****ing match, but just how is the 7mm not as good as the .30 caliber. The 7mm has a flatter trajectory, higher BC, and better wind deflection than the .30 caliber projectile of equal mass (weight)...

As far as accuracy is concerned, the Berger 7mm 180 VLD will be better at long range than a .30 Berger 185 VLD...If you compare grain-for-grain...

I'm serious, I want to know how it is not as good.

I'm not trying to be difficult, or "trolling" for reactions. I'm on a serious level now.

I think it's worth the discussion, since everyone wants to discredit the 7mm calibers in here.

Keep in mind, I do own .30 caliber rifles as well, so I don't dislike either one.
I am not disdaining the 7mm bore, i just built a 284 win for 1k DEER/ANTELOPE and for 600 yards MAX ELK. I feel if you step up to the 7mm-300 win and up category then 1000 yards for elk is is doable, marginal still, but doable. A 300 win mag and up is great for elk at 100 yards and deer to about 1250 IMO, and a 338 Lapua/edge sized case or bigger is great for Elk out to about 1300 yards and deer 1500. But a 338 edge +p (or terminator +p) and up would be awesome for elk out to around a mile and deer about the same. Some have the skills to shoot at game farther than that but i certainly dont. And if you shoot game with the cartridges above farther than i listed, then kudos to you, i think these ranges give a general idea for max distances using high BC bullets.
 
As far as accuracy is concerned, the Berger 7mm 180 VLD will be better at long range than a .30 Berger 185 VLD...If you compare grain-for-grain...

I'm serious, I want to know how it is not as good.

This reminds or the ricer vs V8 argument in the car world: "my 2.5 L 4 cly motor makes 100 hp / liter of displacement, your 6.0 v8 only makes 60 hp / L so my 4 cly better."

The fact that one is making nearly twice the power and blows the doors off the other doesn't seem to matter in this line of thinking..
Completely different, but I think the argument carries. I'm not calling you or a 7 a "ricer" caliber, but bigger is generally better in some things in all out performance. It may not be as efficient and there may be a trade off in other areas, but in terms of raw performance and energy delivered down range a 338 will beat an 8 mm will beat a 300 will beat a 7 mm if each is being pushed to their limits.

And that is why I like my cars with v8's and turbos. :)
 
What I want to know is why would anyone compare the heavier end offering of one caliber to the lighter offering of another? Pull out the limits of the weight and compare best BC offerings and weight to best BC offerings to weight for each caliber. Then you will not be able to claim better BC, or energy for the smaller caliber by imposed limits. Why handicap either caliber? Load them up and let them shine with whatever they have to bring to the table. No limiting rules, just facts.

The best day of my life was when I graduated from bracket handicapped drag racing to heads up pro tree. Some of the best racing we did was the quick eights on a Saturday night. We had one rule, " Run What Ya Brung, and Hope You Brung Enough.

Jeff

This has always been my thought, compairing grain for grain doesn't tell the full potential of a round. The 2 might b equal in weight, but are not equivalent, as one taps the fullest entail of a caliber, and the other does nt.
 
This reminds or the ricer vs V8 argument in the car world: "my 2.5 L 4 cly motor makes 100 hp / liter of displacement, your v8 only makes 6.0 L v8 only makes 60 hp / L so it is better."

The fact that one blows the doors off the other doesn't seem to matter in this line of thinking..
Completely different, but I think the argument carries. I'm not calling you or a 7 a "ricer" caliber, but bigger is generally better in some things. It may not be as efficient and there may be a trade off in other areas, but in terms of raw performance and energy delivered down range a 338 will beat an 8 mm will beat a 300 will beat a 7 mm if each is being pushed to their limits.

AMEN to that!!!

But but but if we pull 4 of your plug wires then the ricer will be better then your v8.
 
What I want to know is why would anyone compare the heavier end offering of one caliber to the lighter offering of another? Pull out the limits of the weight and compare best BC offerings and weight to best BC offerings to weight for each caliber. Then you will not be able to claim better BC, or energy for the smaller caliber by imposed limits. Why handicap either caliber? Load them up and let them shine with whatever they have to bring to the table. No limiting rules, just facts.

Jeff

This is true...I guess we could compare say the 7mm 180 VLD to the .30 210 VLD....I happen to have both sitting right here in front of me at my reloading bench...It'll be easier this way. Plus, both are near the top weight offerings in their calibers.

The 7mm 180 has a G1 BC of .659, and the .30 210 has a G1 of .631. That's 0.028 That's not a huge difference, but enough.

F612E94A-2D9B-4B6D-AB93-7D6DD08064DC-1209-00000112A2415322_zps81cb965d.jpg
 
Not trying to start another ****ing match, but just how is the 7mm not as good as the .30 caliber. The 7mm has a flatter trajectory, higher BC, and better wind deflection than the .30 caliber projectile of equal mass (weight)...

As far as accuracy is concerned, the Berger 7mm 180 VLD will be better at long range than a .30 Berger 185 VLD...If you compare grain-for-grain...

I'm serious, I want to know how it is not as good.

I'm not trying to be difficult, or "trolling" for reactions. I'm on a serious level now.

I think it's worth the discussion, since everyone wants to discredit the 7mm calibers in here.

Keep in mind, I do own .30 caliber rifles as well, so I don't dislike either one.

If you want to engage in an objective exchange of facts then I'll oblige.

First, 30 cal bullets have more mass than 7mm bullets of like shape so comparing grain to grain is not comparing apples to apples. To compare apples to like we'll compare the ballsically best bullets for each, i.e. the 284 180 hybrid and the 308 215 and 230 hybrids.

180, .674 G1, .345 G7
215, .696 G1, .356 G7
230, .743 G1, .380 G7

The 308 bullets have higher BC's

If we are shooting out of the STW and RUM we are probably getting 3200 fps with the 180's and 3150 for the 215's and 3000 for the 230's

At 1000 yds and 3000 ft elev the Vel, Energy and 10 mph Wind is

180, 2055, 1688, 3.92 MOA
215, 2047, 2000. 3.87 MOA
230, 1988, 2018, 3.85 MOA

The external ballistics are a wash. The 308 bullets make bigger holes and hit harder and that's what counts. That's why a 7mm bullet is not as good as a 308 bullet.
 
Already done it with the 7mm-300win verses the 300 win at 1000 plus side by side. But when you introduce the 30 cal 215 Berger with a BC of .696 or the 230 with a BC of .743 things start to get rough on the 7mm.

Jeff
 
This is true...I guess we could compare say the 7mm 180 VLD to the .30 210 VLD....I happen to have both sitting right here in front of me at my reloading bench...It'll be easier this way. Plus, both are near the top weight offerings in their calibers.

The 7mm 180 has a G1 BC of .659, and the .30 210 has a G1 of .631. That's 0.028 That's not a huge difference, but enough.

F612E94A-2D9B-4B6D-AB93-7D6DD08064DC-1209-00000112A2415322_zps81cb965d.jpg



Now add the 215 and 230. There really is no end . ''Terminally'' bigger, heavier, hits harder. Live it ,learn it.,Drop it.
 
This reminds or the ricer vs V8 argument in the car world: "my 2.5 L 4 cly motor makes 100 hp / liter of displacement, your 6.0 v8 only makes 60 hp / L so my 4 cly better."

The fact that one is making nearly twice the power and blows the doors off the other doesn't seem to matter in this line of thinking..
Completely different, but I think the argument carries. I'm not calling you or a 7 a "ricer" caliber, but bigger is generally better in some things in all out performance. It may not be as efficient and there may be a trade off in other areas, but in terms of raw performance and energy delivered down range a 338 will beat an 8 mm will beat a 300 will beat a 7 mm if each is being pushed to their limits.

And that is why I like my cars with v8's and turbos. :)

Hey now, I hate imports, too. LOL but the 7mmSTW is like the Lambo and the .338 Lapua is like the GTSR Viper.....Both will go 230, but the Lambo will get there faster...Sorry, I just like that analogy better since it's more appropriate vehicle-to- caliber ratio. The STW is the lightweight speedfreak, and the Lapua is the heavier hitting cousin.

I think both are great calibers used in their proper respects... But for me, there is no need for anything that large, as the biggest thing around here is a black bear and whitetails.

I do understand expansion diameter and heavier bullets retain more energy at equal distance and all that stuff. All I was saying is that there is no need to completely dog on the 7mm as if it were some slouch, ya know? It just seems like there is alot of disdain for the 7mm as if it were some bastard child of the bullet world. That was all I was wondering was why there is so little credit given, when it deserves more respect than it was getting.

I do appologise for earlier, I will make no excuses. Now maybe we can get this forum back on the road...
 
X-Man,

You implied in a very general way that the lighter the rifle, the easier it would be to hit your target. That is just not accurate. The OP included elk on the menu, not just whitetail. If you notice, I haven't made any recommendation at all to the OP as to specific cartridge. IMO, that's a subjective decision he will have to make. I just brought up some stats and facts.

If it was me looking at the same parameters, I would choose the 300 RUM in a Sendero type of configuration which weighs about 12 lbs topped with a NF scope and carrying a Harris bi-pod. This is in fact what I trek around the mountains and plains with and it is very capable of accurate consistent 1K shots when dialed in with a good load. The 300 WM can do it and the RUM can do it better and 338 can do it better yet. My compromise is the RUM at present time and one I feel very comfortable with. I may decide to upgrade to a Lapua or equal someday. I guarantee you (for the sake of other readers) I will never down grade to a 7mm when it comes to very long range, 1K, elk hunting. Can the 7 do it? Yup, but I feel a whole lot better pulling the trigger on a 1K elk with a big 300 or better.

The golf club analogy is an interesting one. A nine iron will get you 90-100 yds and a driver will get you 250-300. You might pick a 5 iron because it's easier for you on the fairway, but you just wont get 3 Wood results. Always a trade off.

Thanks for the well thought out reply.

Everyone has a different idea of what long range is and what sort of hunting rifle best suites their hunting style/terrain. A lighter caliber for a lighter rifle was sort of where I was going.The lighter rig being more mobile not more accurate/stable.

Your 12 pound rig is exactly the route chosen by my good buddy. Not a bad set up at all.

Your disdain for the 7mm and assorted "pea shooters" is understood.
At one time I had no use for such calibers either, but with modern high performance controlled expansion bullets they are sure death within their respective expansion range. For me the jury is still out on a 7mm Berger at 3500fps (for instance) at 25 yards, but that is just me. I too prefer a bit more horsepower latitude on game such as elk.

If you don't feel a rifle or caliber then you will not be confident in it and should not use it.
Beware of the man that is confident in the same rifle...He might just surprise you!
 
Sorry if this post bothered you, it is off the OP's question, a little, but he did ask about a .338 so these video's are of value to represent the difference when you go past 1000. I gave a real world answer to the best of my personal experience on the first page.

Jeff

My bad.
 
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