Anti-Long range hunters

[PrimeTime]

Did you ever notice that on many other hunting and shooting sites, you are labelled unsportsman like if you even mention long range hunting. I just saw a post on another site where a guy stated that no shots should be taken over 400 yards because it shows a lack of respect for the game.
It's funny how some people get scared off from something and even criticize it when they know nothing about it. have any of you experienced this?

 

[Len Backus]

PrimeTime

That is the entire reason for the existence of this forum. I personally got tired of dealing with the controversy on other forums. It took so much effort and hassle on other sites to carry on even a modicum of fruitful discussion of the long range hunting topic.

So...I started LongRangeHunting.com

We have had about 1,500 posts from over 200 members so far. Membership numbers are growing at about one per day. We have members from all over the world including Australia, New Zealand, Germany and Switzerland. We have 2 bullet manufacturers, one hunting outfitter, several magazine writers and editors and just a whole bunch of really smart guys. We also have outstanding shooters who have shot in national class events. I have been privileged so far to shoot with two of them at my place near Wautoma, Wisconsin.

There has only been one post so far that was even close to violating our guidelines and a gentle comment by me took care of that thread. There were 2 new members quite a while back whose membership I immediately and quietly cancelled because I recognized them from their poor posts on other forums. That's about the extent of problems in 6 months of existence.

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: Len Backus ]

 

[p dog shooter]

Primetime you beat to this I was on the other site I think most of the complainers have never shot a really accurate rifle at anything farther them a couple of hundred yards. With the right rifle and knowledge we know that game can and is kill and what other people would think of as impossible ranges. But it is hard to convince people who haven't tryed it. Good hunting good shooting.

 

[10X]

i have to laugh most people cant even judge range properly let alone hit any thing that might be at 200 yards.so when you say you shoot 500 or 700 or 900 they imediatly think that you are full of BS. so when u show that its easily done then they have to think of a reason why you shold not do it.because they cant.

 

[*WyoWhisper*]

I spend time and I advertise my Guest ranch one only one other board because of the simple reason most other boards denounce or badger you about shooting any game over 200 sometimes 400 yards. Darryl Cassel is one reason I came to and remain on this board. He has helped me tremendously in a new rifle setup. I am slowly gettin to know some of the others here as well. The only other board that has very good knowledgable members that appreciate l o n g r a n g e hunting is the varmint hunters board. Len I for one appreciate your effort as well as the others who made this board happen. My hats off to you all!!!! Just a personal thanks from me.

 

[Jim R]

The thing is, people do not like that which they do not understand. I was in that boat not much more than a year ago.

On first glance, I understood why some hunters did not appreciate someone able to take a 300-500 shot on an animal. Based upon their experience (and mine to that point)taking shots that distance led to a long day or night of tracking and just seemed to be a little reckless. Since most people are not willing to put the time in necessary to take those kind of shots, they rationalize their unwillingness by saying no one else should be able to either. I felt that way until I started reading some "long rangers" post about how they went about it.

Instead of closing my mind and opening my mouth, I decided to listen and learn how these guys did what they did and how they got to where they are, long range wise. I became fascinated by the processes that lead up to one being considered a long range hunter. I then made the decision I was willing to do what it takes to ethically and confidently contemplate shots at those distances and aquire the appropriate equipment to do so.

I do not think these people single out long range hunting as their target of disdane. I think they have the same attitude in their everyday life when it comes to anything that does not fit neatly into a certain mold. They can't (won't) do it, so no one else can (should) do it either.

Personally, the more they say I should not do it, the more it makes me want to! Jim R

 

[Darryl Cassel]

Hello

I had a whole page written here but, somehow it never got on when I went to post it. Here is another page.

As far a a 400 yard shot, maybe thats the limit of that person with the equipment he has.

As far as respect for the game, when did we as hunters or the Game commissions of all hunting States ever apply yardage to respect of killing the game? Is this self imposed by a few who know NOTHING about what we do and how we do it? Kill is kill and Dead is Dead no matter what the range.

Do we respect the animal when we stick an arrow in it at 10 to 50 Yards?----I DO
Do we Respect the animal when we shoot it with a muzzle loader at 50 to 100 yards?--I DO
Do we respect the animal when we take our 270s and kill it at 100 to 400 yards?--I DO
Do we respect the game when we kill it at 2100 yards?----You bet, I DO. Even more.

Most hunters would not invest or should I say, be allowed to invest in the equipment we have. The equipment is VERY important and is a must to anyone getting into the sport.
Most hunters are 3 day a year hunters and really don't want to invest in the high cost equipment needed to kill at long ranges.

This is why we live in a World ( for the most part) where we have the freedom to hunt the way we choose.

It seems a shame that those hunters in our own ranks would voice their opinions (so strongly) concerning what some of us have enjoyed for so many years. This is especially true when they don't understand how it is done, what is needed to get the job done, and to top it off, they just don't have the desire to do it anyway.
Shall we say, you hunt your way and we will simply hunt ours.

I think maybe they (the doubters) should remember this old Indian saying----"Don't tell me what to do or how to do it, till you have walked in my moccasins the amount of time and miles I have."

You MUST have the equipment, the knowledge to use the equipment, the experiance to apply the knowledge you have learned in placing a bullet downrange into an animal at a distant unheard of and most imnportant, a hunting partner to spot the shots with and for you by use of the bigeye binoculars. Never attempt this sport by yourself.
You must shoot almost the entire year to gain the experiance needed for longrange hunting.

I want to thank Len for this forum and hope it is on for many years to come.
We are all learning from it everyday.

My wife and I have 4 more days till we head west to Colorado for our yearly elk hunt.
The truck and trailer are both packed except for the last minute items. We will be in our tent at 7500 feet elevation and at the same place we always go.
If we can and if the shot presents itself,we will try to beat the 2100 yard shot. We will also have 4 or 5 witnesses with us.

Later and Good hunting to all.
Darryl Cassel

PS--Good thoughts about making you want to do it even more, Jim ---That's the way I have always felt.
Thanks for the compliments Ric. Always willing to help. I'll try and see you in Harrisburg.

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]

 

[Guest]

Jim - you speak my words also. Good job writting it "as it is"! "I can't" never could do nothing. The judgemental ones should put their dresses down as their ignorance is showing.
My friend and I started LR shooting twenty years ago with a 6.5x20 Leupold target scope on my 300 Win. It took a few years and the advent of PC's for us to tie it all together and gain enough knowledge to understand. But we did. The knowledge gained from people on this board confirmed our experience, that LR hunting could be done.
Many thanks to everyone here at LRH for contributing their knowledge, thoughts and hard earned experiences without judgement.
Ignorance is a terrible thing to own.

 

[Jim R]

Hey, Guy. Shoot me an email "long range" from Loveland. You live in one of my most favorite spots in the whole wide world! Is the Buffalo Bar still open in that little town before Loveland? What is that little mining town called? Jim R

 

[AFP]

I agree with all. I am tired of people telling me what I can't do.

I haven't made any really long shots. 318 yds is my max so far. Further, I really have no great desire to make a 400 or 600 yd shot on an animal. I'd just as soon shoot them at 50 or 100 yds. However, I don't like having to pass up on an animal because I am not capable of making the shot. I am silly enough to believe that if I practice enough with my highly accurate hunting rifles, I can take those long shots with confidence.

I too have personally expienced closed mindedness of others as to shooting distances. In short, the ranch manager didn't like the fact that I made a clean, one-shot 300+ yd kill. However, he didn't say a thing to the guy who missed at 60 yds because his scope was loose--so loose you could slide it back and forth in the rings.

Most guys also won't criticize someone who takes a 75 yd shot at a deer running full speed. Somehow that's okay, but a carefully measured and executed shot over 200 yds is somehow wrong.

Blaine

 

[jhendri2]

I agree with all of you. My theory though on taking any shot at game is confidence. I believe you must have confidence in your equipment and ability to make any shot whether it be 50 or 500 yards. I think I practice enough to determine if the shot should be made or not. I would not take 50 yard shot with the animal obstructed but I would take a shot of 400 yards or more on a calm day with no obstructions. I think that is what all of the nay sayers fail to realize or have is confidence in their ability or equipment and they believe they are great shots, which they very well could be, but don't practice it enough to develop the confidence to make the shot. I am not a very good stalker so I practice long range shooting to make up for that deficiency. I don't know why they believe shooting at 400 yards or more is unethical. I test all of my loads at many different ranges to make sure I have that confidence. It's too bad their has to be a division among hunters though. I don't see anything wrong with either style and personnally I don't believe it is any of their business as to how I hunt and definatley not within their right to critisize me for it. I have done nothing illegal and in this day and age everyone should support all hunters, no matter what style they use. Again, I think it just all comes down to confidence in making the shot, if you are confident you can make the shot then take it.

[ 10-26-2001: Message edited by: 338Lapua ]

 

[riflecountry]

Several of the earlier posts echoed my feelings exactly. About 3 years ago,whenI lived in Montana,I made a 500+ yard shot on a good 4x5 mulie buck.I realize this isn't all that far compared to what you guys are doing,but it was for me at the time.When I(reluctantly) told anyone about it,they looked at me as if I were lying.
The thing is I had practiced all summer out to this range and was confident that my rifle(and I)could make the shot almost easily.(I also had a witness).
I find that at least 98% of the hunters I know don't reload,or even test different factory loads to see what works in their gun,much less practice at anything over 300 yards.So for them maybe its not such a bad idea to limit their yardages.I know that for myself even 300 yards was "way too fur" to be shooting when I was younger.
It wasn't until I started building my own rifles and shot in a few benchrest matches that I realized what a truly accurate rifle could do.But I am still amazed at the number of people who have no inkling.

 

[cronhelm]

I find it highly interesting to read my fellow boardmember's comments on their experiences with the non-believers out there.

I have a part-time job in a rather large gunstore and I can tell you with absolute certaintity that the average hunter knows next to nothing about shooting and target rifles. They are completely ignorant of ballistics, range estimation and bullet performance on game.

Most hunters will drop $1000 on a rifle, $150 on a scope and $15 on a single box of the cheapest ammo they can find. This is typical of what we see at the store.

The questions and statements we hear in the store are, in many cases, just short of astounding in their ignorance.

Just to give you an idea, here are a couple of my favourites:

Guy comes in looking for a buttpad for a .308. When I asked him what kind of rifle he just looked at me like I was a complete idiot and said "Don't you have a buttpad for a .308?" This is kind of like trying to buy tires for a sportscar and having no clue what make or model.

The other one happened just this week. We had a guy purchase a Weatherby rifle in 30-378. While we were talking about reloading components, I became suspicious of his lack of knowledge of basic ballistics so I asked what he was planning to use the rifle for. (This is a common question we ask because most people have no idea what they need and are usually operating on the "Uncle Bob told me the .17-50BMG was the best so thats what I want for polar bear hunting." principle).

This guy admitted that he wanted the rifle for "long-range" hunting. OK, says I, then the piddly little 150 gr bullet you are buying is a waste of time for that purpose. Try the 220gr Matchking. He wasn't interested as someone had told him the 150gr was the way to go.

My next questions revealed that this guy figured 500yds was a long-range shot and that he didn't have target turrets on his scope so he had no way of adjusting for long shots. I suppose he figured he was just going to hold over a bit more for the really long shots.

We also see a lot of people who figure that the price of a rifle is directly connected to the inability of the rifle to miss. "Couldn't miss with that one." is one we hear a lot.

The guy wuth the 30-378 didn't seem to show any understanding when I told him holding over wouldn't get him past 300 yds and that the CANNON he had purchased was better suited to 1000+ yd shots. If he wanted to shoot at 500yds then a 30-06 would have been a better choice.

In the end I just shook my head and sold the guy a $130 box of factory 150gr Weatherby ammo cause he wanted to compare it to his loaded ammo. What comparisons he wanted to make he wasn't clear on. The box of 220gr bullets went back on the shelf.

How he was planning to estimate range or bullet drop at "long-range" I will never know.

Maybe it is this type of "long-range" hunter that is giving the rest of us a bad name but on the other hand we can't hold these guy's hands while they muddle through it, deterined to be ignorant, only to figure out it is impossible to make a shot past 400yds.

Peter Cronhelm

 

[Roadrunner]

Part of it also is that I believe that we are going into previously un-charter territory. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) but that there hasn't really been any well documented efforts at long-range hunting before; such as a book or the equivalent. Sure everyone has heard a tale of a long-range "luck" shot by someone somewhere, but not a really concentrated effort to look at long-range hunting. So whenever you're trying something new, there's always people to say "it can't be done, the world is flat".