Annealing testing

[Wildstreak]

Have any of you specifically tested to see if annealing made a difference. Resizing and prep done for a sample and the same exact resizing work plus the addition of annealing for another sample? Eliminating all variables except annealing.

Recently watched a podcast with Erik Cortina and Brian Litz. Brian litz stated that they did extensive testing with 308 and 223 with annealed vs. not annealed and saw no difference in SD/ES in velocity. When Erik pushed the question Brian would not say that it doesn't help, just that they're testing did not indicate that.

I think we all agree that annealing certainly extends the life of your brass. Maybe we don't, who knows. But does it really benefit performance?

 

[marchboom]

If the brass necks get harder the more we load them then the neck tension would change. This would affect bullet release and, thus, powder burn rate. I like the idea of annealing for every loading.

 

[Wildstreak]

If the brass necks get harder the more we load them then the neck tension would change. This would affect bullet release and, thus, powder burn rate. I like the idea of annealing for every loading.

I completely agree. I just found what Brian said interesting. Just made me wonder if anyone (I know I have not) actually did any specific testing.

 

[Mikecr]

The reason why you'll get different answers is because there is not ONE answer.
There are always qualifiers needed for any declaration.

If your clearances and sizing are not in extreme then annealing is often only needed for initial preps.
Then you can suggest that needed, or not, frequent annealing can't hurt.
Well, where did you get that notion?
Yes it can hurt, especially if not done correctly and consistently. Your load might hate it.

In contrast, there are situations where annealing can be expected to cure what ales you.
Either way, it should all be part of your plan, which should center on understanding, and not a number of YouTube likes..

 

[entoptics]

Did this write up on Salt Bath annealing when I first attempted it.

Salt Bath Annealing setup and quantitative assessment.

Just finished constructing and first testing of a salt bath annealing system. First post will just be the components and schematics for the rig I built. Second post on opinions of use and efficacy testing. Links are amazon, cause they’re easy to do. Shop for yourself. Prices are estimates for...

www.longrangehunting.com

YMMV, but I still do it, as it's easy/cheap enough in the scheme of things, and makes me feel like I'm dotting all the t's and crossing all the i's...

 

[QuietTexan]

When Erik pushed the question Brian would not say that it doesn't help, just that they're testing did not indicate that.

I really like the statistics that Brian does in his books to support his statements. He does a good job at laying out the pertinent factors before giving the details. Part of me wishes he gave more factor information, but I can see him culling down to just the ones that he thinks are relevant to the test. That doesn't mean he can give positive answers on causation - most times it's just "you could probably try and stop doing this" and if your results don't change then it was arguably unnecessary. Process of elimination to reduce reloading task list.

He has given a hard "no" before - there is no such thing as regression in group size at increased distances, he'll actually pay you money if you can prove groups shrinking at longer ranges using a shoot through target.

 

[Mikecr]

He has given a hard "no" before - there is no such thing as regression in group size at increased distances, he'll actually pay you money if you can prove groups shrinking at longer ranges using a shoot through target.

Flawed testing from the git go. Anyone should know that bullets on an opening path have no means to steer back to a target.
And that right up front, a shoot through test could never identify the phenomenon.
So if he WANTED to find what was happening, he needed to approach it with that intent.
I think he should have explored other possibilities.

I'm someone who shoots so-so at 100, terrible at 200, better than either (in moa) at 300.
There is no way I can prove that (to someone else) or why.
I think it has something to do with my glasses/condition/prescription, and/or perhaps a less optimum method of parallax adjustment.

 

[nksmfamjp]

A lot of these things are a combined effect. Just annealing does not improve SD/ES. I'll bet if he took 1-6x fired brass and mixed them together, then shot 1/2 annealed and half with no annealing it would show. Then try that through one fl die setting. I'll bet that could tell a story.

i agree taking 50 twice fired brass and annealing 1/2, likely doesn't show on the target.

then take a load. Shoot it 500 times through the same 100 brass. Do the first 50 and last 50 show the same group size? If I anneal every cycle, how close are they.

i guess my point is it is all in the test setup and if annealing is really targeted per say.