Annealing question

[chevy73]

I've got a soup can a coffe can and a 85 k20 windshield wiper motor into this one hook it up to a 6 volt dc power source to slow rotation down

 

[Black Tail Hunter]

It makes no difference how they cool

I have read many people saying it makes no difference how they cool. While this may be true for the purpose of annealing the case neck, how they cool may affect the case head. Especially on short cases. You want to prevent the heat from travelling much past the shoulder of the case to prevent annealing the case head. Dropping in a pan of water immediately stops the heat from travelling further down the case than desired.

 

[Sockeye66]

I built the same one as this one sometime back and although it's a single feed, it works great and all the parts are on Amazon.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0xE-6bSwME

 

[RD57]

I do all mine by hand using a power driver and Lee shell holders for case length gauge. I place them on wrinkled up heavy duty aluminum foil. I abandoned cooling in water as it doesn't help and requires drying the water from inside the case. I usually don't do more than 100 at a time and it only takes about 30 minutes.

 

[LRNut]

I used to screw around with torches, drills, etc. Then I got an Annealing Made Perfect annealer. Fast and precise. Highly recommended, but not inexpensive.

 

[jarnold37]

For you guys that anneal with torch by hand, do you put in water to cool or let it air cool. I've seen online it done both ways. Want to try it. Looking to see what the experts on here say. It would seem to me quenching in water could harden but I don't know so that's why I'm asking.

When I first started reloading in the early 80's, I used every step I could to prepare my brass. Cut the primer pockets, deburred flash holes, trimmed the length and even reamed inside the necks with a Lee target reloading kit. I would neck size in the Lee neck body, which actually was a straight line die with no button. After two or three neck sizings I would then full length size. Early on I noticed that when using the full length die, there was a noticeable screech as the button was pulled back out up through the neck. It took some effort on the ram to retrieve it when button was actually sizing. There was no internet then and no major communication for help with problems. I started asking and calling gun builders and most told me to lubricate my necks before sizing. Then I had a rifle built chambered in an Ackley improved cartridge. Wgen fire forming the cases about 50% were splitting in the shoulder neck area. I called the gunsmith and he wanted the gun shipped back to him and the split cases. He soon informed me the problem was bad brass. I told him that it was brand new brass. I quickly learned not to argue with a gunsmith. From this I became aware of annealing. I found that there were many different opinions. Then I called a major brass manufacturer and talked to the engineer over manufacturing. He told me to put the cases in water half way up and use propane torch, in a dark room, and heat til necks start to turn orange and quench in water. Not knowing how hot or orange to go, my dilema was all the different opinions. Most say not to hot it will ruin the brass. So I am confident now because I used the squeeking button method to determine. If The necks werent completely orange, there would be some amount of squeeking from button. Thus some had more neck tension than others.I have noticed my accuracy is better if necks are annealed and have not damaged brass after as many as five annealings. Just my thoughts. I know there are many different views on this.

 

[Pieter Willem Vorster]

This is my DIY annealer. Very cheeply assembled. Works like a bom!!!

Gloeiman annealer - Google Search

 

[david g ranes]

When I first started reloading in the early 80's, I used every step I could to prepare my brass. Cut the primer pockets, deburred flash holes, trimmed the length and even reamed inside the necks with a Lee target reloading kit. I would neck size in the Lee neck body, which actually was a straight line die with no button. After two or three neck sizings I would then full length size. Early on I noticed that when using the full length die, there was a noticeable screech as the button was pulled back out up through the neck. It took some effort on the ram to retrieve it when button was actually sizing. There was no internet then and no major communication for help with problems. I started asking and calling gun builders and most told me to lubricate my necks before sizing. Then I had a rifle built chambered in an Ackley improved cartridge. Wgen fire forming the cases about 50% were splitting in the shoulder neck area. I called the gunsmith and he wanted the gun shipped back to him and the split cases. He soon informed me the problem was bad brass. I told him that it was brand new brass. I quickly learned not to argue with a gunsmith. From this I became aware of annealing. I found that there were many different opinions. Then I called a major brass manufacturer and talked to the engineer over manufacturing. He told me to put the cases in water half way up and use propane torch, in a dark room, and heat til necks start to turn orange and quench in water. Not knowing how hot or orange to go, my dilema was all the different opinions. Most say not to hot it will ruin the brass. So I am confident now because I used the squeeking button method to determine. If The necks werent completely orange, there would be some amount of squeeking from button. Thus some had more neck tension than others.I have noticed my accuracy is better if necks are annealed and have not damaged brass after as many as five annealings. Just my thoughts. I know there are many different views on this.

My neighbor who shot bench rest matches in the 50s and 60s told me the same method by heating in pan of water then knocking over I used his method in the late 70s always shot my brass till the necks split couldn't afford to throw it away sooner. David

 

[eshorebwhntr]

I have read many people saying it makes no difference how they cool. While this may be true for the purpose of annealing the case neck, how they cool may affect the case head. Especially on short cases. You want to prevent the heat from travelling much past the shoulder of the case to prevent annealing the case head. Dropping in a pan of water immediately stops the heat from travelling further down the case than desired.

Even on a short case you won't be able to correctly anneal the neck and soften the case head. To do that you would basically melt and/or ruin the neck before the case head got hot enough to alter the grain structure of the metal.

Most average shooters will not benefit from annealing. I also feel most guys would have to do a horrifically inconsistent job to make their load shoot worse.

The biggest benefit is what a few guys referred too, cracked necks and shoulders from a lot of reloads or factory hard brass transforming into an Ackley shoulder chambering.

When I've done it to prevent cracking, I take 4-5 pieces and do the torch and drill method with the lights off. Count your time to orange glow. Then repeat for the rest of the lot. I read one guy say 8s. Sounds about right. Most times I think I end up around 5-7s.

 

[ButterBean]

Even on a short case you won't be able to correctly anneal the neck and soften the case head. To do that you would basically melt and/or ruin the neck before the case head got hot enough to alter the grain structure of the metal.

Most average shooters will not benefit from annealing. I also feel most guys would have to do a horrifically inconsistent job to make their load shoot worse.

The biggest benefit is what a few guys referred too, cracked necks and shoulders from a lot of reloads or factory hard brass transforming into an Ackley shoulder chambering.

When I've done it to prevent cracking, I take 4-5 pieces and do the torch and drill method with the lights off. Count your time to orange glow. Then repeat for the rest of the lot. I read one guy say 8s. Sounds about right. Most times I think I end up around 5-7s.

I concur

 

[jimirwin]

For you guys that anneal with torch by hand, do you put in water to cool or let it air cool. I've seen online it done both ways. Want to try it. Looking to see what the experts on here say. It would seem to me quenching in water could harden but I don't know so that's why I'm asking.

Brass or most all other non-ferrous alloys do not heat treat like ferrous alloys (steels).
Heat then quench anneals non-ferrous alloys. Air cool gets you some effect, but not annealing. Heat to red hot and some say you've ruined the alloy. Don't know about that, but you're seriously close to melting it!
At least it will be "dead soft annealed" and mostly useless as a cartridge case. Case brass must have some elasticity to fulfill all its functions as a cartridge case.

 

[John Klingenberg]

Brass doesn't harden when quenched. Back when I annealed in water I always tipped them into the water. The thought is it keeps the heat from migrating down the case. Air cooling doesn't give me a warm fuzzy.

 

[Tidus56]

I used to screw around with torches, drills, etc. Then I got an Annealing Made Perfect annealer. Fast and precise. Highly recommended, but not inexpensive.

How long have you had it and has it held up well? I have an annealez but I would prefer something better.

 

[RWE]

Must be a bunch of like minds here... I just looked into doing this last night (interwebs/youtubes) and decided to finally do it by hand/drilll-socket. Starting with .308s and .30-06. I like the wrinkled tin foil idea and since there is a report of one wife who appreciated it being done on the dining room table I think I will try that as well!

Thanks ALL!