annealing brass

[mbeebout]

When is it best to have this done before you even load the first round or after a few times loading thanks for any help

 

[ShtrRdy]

After the brass has been fired a few times. Then every few times firing, anneal again.

 

[gohring3006]

It comes from the factory annealed. I don't anneal until it's fired three or four times. The brass will tell me when it's time. I can feel bullets seat in the brass harder than others....

 

[ohiohunter]

If you have the means I would anneal after every firing. Also anneal before you size, that was the consensus at the berger nationals.

 

[br45zy]

I anneal my brass after every firing. I see it as another step to ensure consistent neck tension and prolong the life of the brass.

 

[Mikecr]

Annealing is best done every time, -or very rarely.

I lead dip process anneal, which is perfect, but a pain in the butt. Given this, I anneal prior to first fireforming(if reshaping the case) and then decide at 30 or so firings whether to re-anneal, or start over with a new batch of brass. So far, I re-anneal and have yet to lose a case.
To qualify this I'll mention that my chambers and custom dies are tight enough & matching to do this. My cartridges are also good designs(reloading-wise).

I couldn't do it with something based on a 109yr old 30-06 design.
And when a system comes along that's as good as lead dip AND more practical, then I might switch to continuous annealing with it. But that system would have to include actual tension measure rather than seating force measure. We're not there yet..

 

[Pdvdh]

Annealing is best done every time, -or very rarely.

I lead dip process anneal, which is perfect, but a pain in the butt. Given this, I anneal prior to first fireforming (if reshaping the case) and then decide...

Could you elaborate a bit more on (if reshaping the case)? Trying to better understand your method and the rationale for it. Because I'm about to fireform 338 Lapua parent cases to 338 Lapua Improved.

Since the Lapua factory has already annealed their cases prior to shipment, why would I anneal them again prior to fireforming? I'm not working these cases in any way prior to fire forming. I could see annealing again if I was working parent cases thru several case forming steps thru case reduction or expansion dies. I don't see the benefit of annealing Lapua cases prior to fireforming in an Ackley improved step, where the parent case can be chambered as is, and fireformed to the "improved" chamber dimensions. Thanks

 

[back40sniper]

Mike, just wondering if you have any problems with lead sticking to brass?

 

[Mikecr]

My initial anneal is to better ensure the new shape(shoulder angle, body taper) will take consistently in as few fire forming shots as possible. While Lapua & Norma brass are annealed well, it's not as good as lead dip, and it doesn't hurt a thing to re-anneal.
Where I don't improve cases in any way, and using new Lapua/Norma, I run with it right out of the box.

back40sniper, the secret to successful lead dip annealing is pre-dipping in Mobil1 synthetic for a thin sheen, and then a slow consistent lead dip in and back out(same speed) over ~30-40sec. Don't even try it differently, or you'll fail..

 

[mbeebout]

Thanks for information

 

[Timber338]

Mikecr, sounds like you've got the lead dip method down. I made my own torch-based annealing machine and it is working well. Have you found any technical data to back up the temperature you set your lead to? I have only started to research temperatures and have not found anything very compelling yet. Recrystallization temperatures starting in the mid 500 range for typical cartridge brass alloys is all I've found using sources like Matweb and a few other research papers published by universities.

The game is getting the necks to the correct temperature over the correct time without letting the lower half of the case get anywhere near 500 degrees.

Right now I'm using 750 Tempilaq inside the necks with a stripe of 450 Tempilaq down the entire length of the brass. This way I get my necks up to a high enough temp and guaranteeing that I protect the rest of the brass.

Here is a picture of a few brass each held in the torch about .5 seconds longer starting around 4.5 seconds on the left.

I can see how a lead dip would have advantages of localized instant heat. Probably a more consistent method with proper controls in place. I would love to see the process that Lapua uses to anneal their brass.

 

[oldfortyfiveauto]

I've been annealing with torches on two different machines. Maintaining a consistent temperature is the challenge. Propane tanks can get funky when they get low. I gave up trying to use the tempil paint and rely on a dull red color with the lights out.

Induction heating would solve most consistency problems, but reliability and cost are still issues there.

 

[Mikecr]

We desire a 'process anneal'(~750deg), and not a full anneal(~1200deg).
There is time in recrystallization, but torches are well above 1200deg -and on one side of cases.
With lead dip I apply 750deg simultaneously to all sides/area. Can't get it wrong temperature-wise and recrystallization is so far happening quicker than I dip.
Also, I could dip all the way to webs if I wanted and the case head would not exceed 450deg, not even for 1sec. So again, it's hard to mess up brass with dipping, provided you keep lead from soldering to cases, and/or quench cooling lead to solid inside(hence the slow insertion).
~30sec of dip works for sure.

 

[oldfortyfiveauto]

There is time in recrystallization, but torches are well above 1200deg -and on one side of cases.

Not with multiple torches or induction. 308 cases coming off my Girauld annealer can be handled by the base so the temperature is well below the safety point.