Great discussion!

I made my own annealing machine that spins a case next to a torch flame. Each case gets the torch applied to the same spot on the neck and holds it in the flame for the same amount of time.

Annealing is both temperature and time dependent. I don't recall the exact numbers I researched so don't quote me, but for cartridge brass it will start somewhere north of 600-650 degF but will require maybe 30 minutes to anneal. As you increase temp the time to anneal obviously decreases.

Down near the head needs the hardness from the factory so it better not get annealed or it will fail.

One problem with a torch method is that both ambient temperature and how full your fuel bottle is will change the size and intensity of the flame coming out. So every time I anneal I start with a dummy cartridge of the same make and size. Adjust the flame accordingly to get the tip right on the middle of the neck. Then paint a stripe of 450 degF tempilaque down the entire length of the body. Next I paint the inside of the neck with 750 tempilaque. Then change the dwell time to ensure the 750 in the neck totally liquifies and also check to make sure the lower half of the case does not get above 450. Simple process control to ensure I get the necks up to temp while not annealing anywhere near the head.

Without a high end micrscope I cannot see the crystalline grain structure to prove that I have annealed the brass. So I use empirical data. Each bullet has the same feel when seating into the case neck. Next, ES must be low for a batch of ammo. All of my brass lasts for around 12-15 reloads. Where it used to only last 5-6 with my max pressure loads before I annealed. Finally, The ammo should be capable of holding 1/4-1/3 moa anywhere between 100 and 1000 yards (or the best accuracy potential of the rifle) and not degrade in accuracy as the brass continues to get fired.

So far this method has given me very good results. High accuracy and high brass life.
 
So, how are you weighing charges and sizing the brass? These two factors may have a greater effect on velocity spreads than case hardness. Do the cases have similar neck wall thickness and variations? I think I would have neck turned to eliminate those variables.
 
Are you cleaning cases between firings? Are you graphiting the necks before seating bullets?

Not sure if you're asking me or the OP. I just clean the outside of the cases with a rag with isopropyl alcohol after I resize. I like the powder residue in the neck. I use a qtip to apply redding imperial sizing wax to the inside of the neck. I shoot only Nosler brass because neck wall thickness is within .001 for all my cases but I do measure to verify each new box of brass. Never had one out of spec. I weigh powder with an rcbs chargemaster.

I FL resize using Redding bushing dies and usually target either .002 or .003" of interference. Also use a redding competition shell holder to bump the shoulder .001 - .002 smaller than the chamber.

I do agree no single reloading technique is the single driver for accurate loads. They all play a part.
 
Not sure if you're asking me or the OP. I just clean the outside of the cases with a rag with isopropyl alcohol after I resize. I like the powder residue in the neck. I use a qtip to apply redding imperial sizing wax to the inside of the neck. I shoot only Nosler brass because neck wall thickness is within .001 for all my cases but I do measure to verify each new box of brass. Never had one out of spec. I weigh powder with an rcbs chargemaster.

I FL resize using Redding bushing dies and usually target either .002 or .003" of interference. Also use a redding competition shell holder to bump the shoulder .001 - .002 smaller than the chamber.

I do agree no single reloading technique is the single driver for accurate loads. They all play a part.
Not sure if you're asking me or the OP. I just clean the outside of the cases with a rag with isopropyl alcohol after I resize. I like the powder residue in the neck. I use a qtip to apply redding imperial sizing wax to the inside of the neck. I shoot only Nosler brass because neck wall thickness is within .001 for all my cases but I do measure to verify each new box of brass. Never had one out of spec. I weigh powder with an rcbs chargemaster.

I FL resize using Redding bushing dies and usually target either .002 or .003" of interference. Also use a redding competition shell holder to bump the shoulder .001 - .002 smaller than the chamber.

I do agree no single reloading technique is the single driver for accurate loads. They all play a part.



So I just shot the group that hasn't been annealed, this will be four firings, best sd and Es so far.

ES of 9 and SD 3!
 
Hate to say it, but I have seen the same results with several rifles as far as NOT annealing. I have a 25-06 custom that will hold similar ES and SD to what you're seeing and I've honestly lost track of firings. It's upwards of 10x on this batch of cases and I'm still getting consistent seating pressure and sizing without case loss. I'll drop a case or 2 to neck splits here and there, so maybe annealing would help that. I also have a 30-06 pistol that groups very well with freshly FLS and torch anneal, but groups go to hell each firing after that.

Great experiment, I look forward to the final results.
 
17 Hornet Hornady brass sucks
Amen to that! I was dumbstuck how many cases failed after initial factory load was fired ! And to add insult, the number of primer pockets you could install a primer into by only using finger pressure! Silly putty might be a better material to use!
 
Ooops... Well it is what it is. Perhaps there's more to ES/SD than annealing alone.

Thumbs up for your experiment and reporting.


So, how are you weighing charges and sizing the brass? These two factors may have a greater effect on velocity spreads than case hardness. Do the cases have similar neck wall thickness and variations? I think I would have neck turned to eliminate those variables.


This is how I throw my powder. It will get right on the money or one kernel shy.

 
Great test. So it appears that you have your powder throwing abilities on point so that can be taken out of the equation. However, one of the biggest variables that is one of the largest causes of ES, and SD variations is the neck thickness variance. Despite how soft the brass or hard the brass if the neck thicknesses are all different which is the case in most factory brass (yes even lapua and higher end brass) then this will truly flaw your results. Can you get an idea? Perhaps. I think you would see far more accurate results with all neck turned uniformed brass that way all the brass could have the exact same bushing used on them. This would highlight the errors or benefits that the actual annealing process would harm or fix. Despite that great test and thank you for the work you put in and sharing, very interesting.
 
Great test. So it appears that you have your powder throwing abilities on point so that can be taken out of the equation. However, one of the biggest variables that is one of the largest causes of ES, and SD variations is the neck thickness variance. Despite how soft the brass or hard the brass if the neck thicknesses are all different which is the case in most factory brass (yes even lapua and higher end brass) then this will truly flaw your results. Can you get an idea? Perhaps. I think you would see far more accurate results with all neck turned uniformed brass that way all the brass could have the exact same bushing used on them. This would highlight the errors or benefits that the actual annealing process would harm or fix. Despite that great test and thank you for the work you put in and sharing, very interesting.

I agree, I shoot Lapua and neck turn. However, this test I wanted to shoot something most guys can buy and I think most don't neck turn. Remmy it's only 25 cases so I can get the neck measurements when I am done. I am also thinking about going for a 6 th firing. The reloading process is going pretty quick. I am currently writing up the results for test 4
 
Firing number 4

Group 1 amp annealed for 4 firings
1 2887 15 ES SD 5
2 2884
3 2894
4 2879
5 2884

Group 2 anneal after 2x fired
1 2887 14 ES SD 5
2 2891
3 2901
4 2891
5 2898

Group 3 Torch annealed 4 firings
1 2892 17 ES SD 6
2 2886
3 2891
4 2888
5 2875

Group 4 Anneal after 3x firing, first time being annealed
1 2896 12 ES SD 4
2 2892
3 2891
4 2890
5 2884

Group 5 no annealing
1 2895 9 ES SD 3
2 2898
3 2904
4 2901
5 2899
 
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