All Around Mountain Rifle Build

jaybo

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Apr 18, 2012
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130
Location
Louisiana
I had a 270WSM and was shooting 150gr bullets. The recoil was nothing compared to the 300WM with 200gr bullets. The 270WSM could be shot all day long with no problem. If that is the route you want to go, get a 1:8 or 1:9 barrel twist rate. The 1:9 will shoot the 165 Matrix bullets and the 1:8 the 170 Bergers. Read some of Big n Green post on the 165 Matrix bullets on elk at long range. He swears by them but I am not sure what barrel length he is using.
That being said, I would look into the difference of recoil with the 300WM with 165 grain bullets. That will give you more options later and if you are hunting in grizzly country I'd carry some heavy rounds just for piece of mind especially after a kill.
 

35 Whelen

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May 21, 2018
Messages
355
Location
Montana
A little off topic here but. Does anyone feel the recoil when your shooting at something breathing? I still get the juice when stalking a rabbit. (With a 22)

From the bench or a competition. That’s a different story. My 7.5 lb 300 rum kicks like a 10 gauge bps. Shouldered right. I don’t remember it going off while hunting.

Good luck on the build. There has been a lot of great info posted.
You usually do not feel the recoil when shooting at game, but if a rifle recoils more then one likes when sighting in or target shooting they do not have the confidence they need in their self and are thinking of it when hunting and end up making bad shoots because of it.
 

35 Whelen

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May 21, 2018
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355
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Montana
Just an FYI, one of the Eastman's, I believe it's Guy, has hunted elk, deer and pronghorn for years with a 270 WSM. One of my hunting buddies owns one, too. Never had a problem killing elk, although he really doesn't shoot anything past 500 yards.
That being said, over the years I've seen a lot of cartridge choices in elk camp. Mostly 7 Rem Mag or 300 Win mag, but the occasional 30-06 and 338 Win Mag and all of them killed the elk. When talking to most of the guides and outfitters, they tend to favor the 300 RUM. A lot of elk have been killed with a .243 and 270 over the years. Hell, they've been killing moose in Europe with a 6.5x55 for years. You've got a ton of choices. I tend to like something that makes a bigger hole, so it's a .30 cal or bigger for me. My newer 338 Lapua weighs only 7.1 lbs bare, and it's what I'm taking on a mountain goat hunt on Kodiak Island in a little over a month.
My best advice is to get the largest caliber you are comfortable shooting and pick which cartridge you want your rifle chambered in. Then get good and comfortable shooting it. Pick an appropriate bullet(s) for the quarry you are going to hunt, and get proficient at shooting those bullets. Shot placement, as you know, trumps everything, but the larger calibers give you a little more "fudge factor" if you don't make the perfect shot. My 300 WSM with a brake is what works well for me, and, has never let me down
I like what you say. Most guides will also tell you to use what you can shoot the best because if a big cartridge is to much for you it's much worse then using a smaller one that you shoot very well. For elk I like bigger as well and enjoy my 35 Whelens very much but with the right bullet and a good shoot a 270 win. will do just fine. Like you say learn how to shoot what your using and make good shoots with good shoot placement. He seems to be a little recoil sensitive and that why I think the 270WSM would be a good chose for him.
 

WildRose

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Feb 3, 2011
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12,066
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N. Texas and S. Africa
A little off topic here but. Does anyone feel the recoil when your shooting at something breathing? I still get the juice when stalking a rabbit. (With a 22)

From the bench or a competition. That’s a different story. My 7.5 lb 300 rum kicks like a 10 gauge bps. Shouldered right. I don’t remember it going off while hunting.

Good luck on the build. There has been a lot of great info posted.
The only time I've ever noticed recoil in the field was when shooting a .458wm with 400gr loads.

And the few times I've scoped myself on high angled shots of course. :(
 

COBrad

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Jan 4, 2004
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1,419
Location
Western Colorado
Quote: “I’ve seen a lot of cartridge choices in elk camp. Mostly 7 Rem Mag or 300 Win mag, but the occasional 30-06 and 338 Win Mag and all of them killed the elk. When talking to most of the guides and outfitters, they tend to favor the 300 RUM.”
I’m not sure where most of you hunt or who uses outfitters but I can tell you in my experience guiding elk hunters here in Colorado for over 30 years almost every guide/outfitter I knew recommended away from the big magnums because very few guys would shoot them enough to master the recoil. I still suggest, when asked, a guy bring the deer rifle he’s comfortable and confident with. A 30 cal magnum pushing big bullets is an awesome killing machine but only if one can shoot it accurately. I chased way more elk shot poorly with magnums than those shot well with lesser rounds.
 

Blueman

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Apr 12, 2014
Messages
101
Great input. At this point I’m leaning towards a 270 wsm because the rifle is going to be very light. Now the question is, what freebore should I spec the reamer to use the 170 EOL?
 

COBrad

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Jan 4, 2004
Messages
1,419
Location
Western Colorado
My guns have consistently shot VLD's best when touching the lands. The last custom I had built was throated so when the base of the bullet was seated to the bottom of the neck the ogive touched the lands.
 

Lunger

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Aug 18, 2018
Messages
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Ste Genevieve Mo
Most of the rifles I own and shoot are in the 7-8lb range (slung, loaded, with optics). So consider my comparisons below in that context. The reality of lightweight, high power rifles is muzzle jump. Even a 7lb .243 flips enough for me to loose sight picture in all but the most stable of positions. Using a sling can help a lot, and there are a lot of ways to use a sling!

A 270WSM with a brake is very manageable, akin to an unbraked .243 w/ light bullets. Probably a good choice if you're hunting solo (without a spotter). I actually don't have any experience with .270 WSM, but I have a fair amount of experience with a brakes 270wby shooting 150's and 160's.

Some brakes are designed to reduce muzzle flip and are ported on top as well as the sides. Might be worth looking into? I don't have any experience with these...

A braked 300WSM is quite shootable. The Kimber I shot had a radial brake, and jumped about like a lightweight .308. Then again, Kimber stocks have an exceptionally low drop at comb/heel. Stock geometry and overall balance play roles as well.

How did you find the recoil of your 300WM? Was it braked?
I actually just got done shooting my kimber mountain ascent in 7mm. Really a great gun. The gun was a little lite at first but I topped it with a 4x14x50 nightforce which added a little over 24oz's to it. Have her shooting pretty well under .5 at a hundred. Pretty good for not even broke in yet and a 70oz trigger lol.
 

el matador

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Jul 30, 2008
Messages
647
Recoil is going to be a function of bullet weight and velocity when comparing cartridges of similar capacity. The 270 WSM shooting 170s will recoil very much the same as a 300 WSM shooting 180s. Or a 7mm with 180s. Bullet diameter has zero effect on recoil.

I own a 270 WSM that shoots really well but I wouldn't buy it again. There are just so few bullet choices in .277 compared to the .264s, .284s, and .308s. Instead of a 270 WSM I would personally choose a 7 SAUM or neck the 270 WSM up to 7mm. In this caliber you have numerous bullet options from every manufacturer. And a bunch of great options in the 150-180 grain range. With the 270 you have some good 150 grain choices but its slim pickin's if you go heavier. Sometimes a specific bullet doesn't shoot well from your rifle no matter what you try. Other times you change your mind and want to try something different. Both scenarios are bad news for a 270 WSM shooter.
 

35 Whelen

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May 21, 2018
Messages
355
Location
Montana
Recoil is going to be a function of bullet weight and velocity when comparing cartridges of similar capacity. The 270 WSM shooting 170s will recoil very much the same as a 300 WSM shooting 180s. Or a 7mm with 180s. Bullet diameter has zero effect on recoil.

I own a 270 WSM that shoots really well but I wouldn't buy it again. There are just so few bullet choices in .277 compared to the .264s, .284s, and .308s. Instead of a 270 WSM I would personally choose a 7 SAUM or neck the 270 WSM up to 7mm. In this caliber you have numerous bullet options from every manufacturer. And a bunch of great options in the 150-180 grain range. With the 270 you have some good 150 grain choices but its slim pickin's if you go heavier. Sometimes a specific bullet doesn't shoot well from your rifle no matter what you try. Other times you change your mind and want to try something different. Both scenarios are bad news for a 270 WSM shooter.
The 270's have proved to be very affective with 130 to 150 grain bullets, and all bullet makers make some very good bullets in these, you can easily find on that works in your gun. Their are bullets in these weights that a very good long rang bullets. The 150's are all made for game up to and including elk and do a fine job. Some guys like the 140's and even the 130's for elk. I prefer heaver bullets in all my cartridges. Yes other calibers have a big selection but the .277 has plenty for hunting use. The 270 is one of my favorite's, but for elk it's would be my smallest chose and I prefer my 35 Whelen. It is really personal preference and being able to be comfortable and confident with what you shoot.
 

WildRose

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Feb 3, 2011
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12,066
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N. Texas and S. Africa
Recoil is going to be a function of bullet weight and velocity when comparing cartridges of similar capacity. The 270 WSM shooting 170s will recoil very much the same as a 300 WSM shooting 180s. Or a 7mm with 180s. Bullet diameter has zero effect on recoil.

I own a 270 WSM that shoots really well but I wouldn't buy it again. There are just so few bullet choices in .277 compared to the .264s, .284s, and .308s. Instead of a 270 WSM I would personally choose a 7 SAUM or neck the 270 WSM up to 7mm. In this caliber you have numerous bullet options from every manufacturer. And a bunch of great options in the 150-180 grain range. With the 270 you have some good 150 grain choices but its slim pickin's if you go heavier. Sometimes a specific bullet doesn't shoot well from your rifle no matter what you try. Other times you change your mind and want to try something different. Both scenarios are bad news for a 270 WSM shooter.
You're also leaving out a major consideration in felt recoil which is the overall weight.

All else being equal though, spot on.

Diameter affects throat erosion more than anything, powder charge and bullet weight are the biggest factors.

Recoil and muzzleflash increase as barrel length decreases due to the "rocket motor effect" from the unburnt powder leaving the barrel.

As to the latter years ago after getting in a discussion with some "internet experts" This was confirmed through emails with Speedy Gonzales and Chuck Hawks.
 

WildRose

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Feb 3, 2011
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12,066
Location
N. Texas and S. Africa
The 270's have proved to be very affective with 130 to 150 grain bullets, and all bullet makers make some very good bullets in these, you can easily find on that works in your gun. Their are bullets in these weights that a very good long rang bullets. The 150's are all made for game up to and including elk and do a fine job. Some guys like the 140's and even the 130's for elk. I prefer heaver bullets in all my cartridges. Yes other calibers have a big selection but the .277 has plenty for hunting use. The 270 is one of my favorite's, but for elk it's would be my smallest chose and I prefer my 35 Whelen. It is really personal preference and being able to be comfortable and confident with what you shoot.
Those bullets exist in a very short supply and selection of weights and manufacturers as compared to the 6.5's and 7mm's. IF your gun shoots one of them no problem, if not, it can get very frustrating and expensive in a hurry.
 
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