ADG 300wm Brass Case volume question

[ncwg2boatguy]

So wanting to try these. Reviews are stellar across the board. Company site says reduce load compared to traditional brass or pressure spikes/unsafe conditions will arise? Thats vague but i understand. So who has tried them and what kind of difference in charge weight are you seeing as opposed to your normal load . Type brass specific if possible. I normally run Winchester or Federal. Sometimes Hornady range pickups (Short life span)

Jim

 

[lancetkenyon]

Here are some findings over a few batches of brass.

 

[ncwg2boatguy]

Wow, Great info. Much appreciated. So how much were you having to reduce your loads on average? Say if you run 78gr H1000 208 ELD.

 

[wildcat455]

Lance, are you measuring your BTS (Base To Shoulder) with the spent primer in? I only ask because in 4 of my 300 Win Mags I seldom get over a 2.270" measurement without the primer. Usually 2.268"- 2.271".

With the primer, the crater throws my measurements off to about what you show.
Just curious.

OP, This is what I have for case data so far on the 300 Win Mag.

NOTES FOR CASE DATA 300 WIN

Below dimensions and weights are from FIRE FORMED CASES in my rifles.

Legend:
W= Weight
L = Length
S = Shoulder
N = Neck
C = Capacity filled flush with H1000
T = Thickness at neck
FWV= Filled Water Volume
gr=grains

BARNES
W 221.0-222.6 gr
FWV 95.3


NORMA
W 222-224
FWV 95.5


PPU CASE
W 240 gr
L 2.608"
S 2.270"
N .333"
C 90 gr
T .014"
FWV 93.5
Case weights and volumes vary allot

WINCHESTER CASE

W 242 gr
L 2.608"
S 2.268"
N .333"
C 90.1 gr
T .014"

FWV 92.2-93.7
Case weights and volumes vary allot.

HORNADY CASE

W 243
L 2.606"
S 2.269"
N .333"
C 90.0 gr
T .014"-.015"

FWV = Didnt measure. Stopped using these cases before data could be obtained.


OLD FEDERAL CASE

W 250 gr
L 2.610"
S 2.268"
N .333"
C 89.0 gr
T .016"
FWV 92 gr


NEW FEDERAL CASE

W 252.5 gr
L 2.610"
S 2.268"
N .333"
C 89.0 gr
T .016"
FWV 91.3


ADG CASE

W 254.6 gr
L 2.216"
S 2.269"
N .332"
C 89 gr
T .015"
FWV 92


SIG SAUER

W 254.5-259.3 gr
FWV 91.3
Stopped using these cases before full data could be obtained.

 

[wildcat455]

Wow, Great info. Much appreciated. So how much were you having to reduce your loads on average? Say if you run 78gr H1000 208 ELD.

In older Federal cases to ADG cases, you won't have to lower much. You'll need to lower more if your Federal brass is recent. In Winchester cases to ADG cases, you're gonna need to lower your charge weight a bit more.
In Hornady to ADG cases, you're gonna want to lower it as well.

I don't do my load development like that. I typically work back up to my velocity node for a change in case manufacturer. It would be wise for you to do so as well. You'll probably find pressure and velocity a grain or 2 lower depending on your lot of H1000.

Most of my loads with H1000 have been in the 72-75 grain range.

 

[lancetkenyon]

No primers in the cases when measured. Deprimed first.

 

[RS0802]

I use IMR8133, 215 Berger's, CCI 250. Switching from Winchester to ADG brass required a 1.5gr drop in charge. Both charges produce around 2950fps.

The other information is great. Thanks for providing it.

 

[wildcat455]

No primers in the cases when measured. Deprimed first.

OK. Now I'm just jealous you have an extra .002"-.005" of powder column!!
LOL!

 

[Bulletspitter]

So wanting to try these. Reviews are stellar across the board. Company site says reduce load compared to traditional brass or pressure spikes/unsafe conditions will arise? Thats vague but i understand. So who has tried them and what kind of difference in charge weight are you seeing as opposed to your normal load . Type brass specific if possible. I normally run Winchester or Federal. Sometimes Hornady range pickups (Short life span)

Jim

Just do a water weight test, and it'll tell you the difference. There's no way to tell the internal volume without it. Weights can be different because of more/less weight in case head, and not just the thickness of the brass. I've tested brass, and compared to the Lapua that I normally use, and found that, even if the brass weighs differently, it may not have the case capacity that you'd think.
I've done pretty extensive tests in several cases, for my match rifles. I'm actually testing a different brand case right now, trying to find a comparable case, for my rifle, at a cheaper cost, for shooting PRS , because of the amount of brass you lose when shooting matches.
I tested Alpha, and Peterson brass, and compared to Lapua. The weight of the cases made me think they had more capacity, because of the neck thickness, but they both turned out to have .5 gr less capacity than Lapua, even tho measuring case thickness would make you think the opposite. The difference had to be in the case head, instead of case thickness.
Water weight tells the story.

 

[Danny Butler]

Wow, Great info. Much appreciated. So how much were you having to reduce your loads on average? Say if you run 78gr H1000 208 ELD.

78 grains of H 1000 is max load for 208 ELD in Hornady book. Should be good to go..

 

[tlsmith22]

I just got some ADG brass and it's almost identical in powder volume as Sig brass. The Nosler and Remington will hold about 3 more grains of VV N570 thank the other two. I haven't fired the ADG yet but I get similar velocities with 81 grains out of the Sig as I do with 83 grains in the Nosler brass.

 

[Jared2700]

Lance, are you measuring your BTS (Base To Shoulder) with the spent primer in? I only ask because in 4 of my 300 Win Mags I seldom get over a 2.270" measurement without the primer. Usually 2.268"- 2.271".

With the primer, the crater throws my measurements off to about what you show.
Just curious.

OP, This is what I have for case data so far on the 300 Win Mag.

NOTES FOR CASE DATA 300 WIN

Below dimensions and weights are from FIRE FORMED CASES in my rifles.

Legend:
W= Weight
L = Length
S = Shoulder
N = Neck
C = Capacity filled flush with H1000
T = Thickness at neck
FWV= Filled Water Volume
gr=grains

BARNES
W 221.0-222.6 gr
FWV 95.3


NORMA
W 222-224
FWV 95.5


PPU CASE
W 240 gr
L 2.608"
S 2.270"
N .333"
C 90 gr
T .014"
FWV 93.5
Case weights and volumes vary allot

WINCHESTER CASE

W 242 gr
L 2.608"
S 2.268"
N .333"
C 90.1 gr
T .014"

FWV 92.2-93.7
Case weights and volumes vary allot.

HORNADY CASE

W 243
L 2.606"
S 2.269"
N .333"
C 90.0 gr
T .014"-.015"

FWV = Didnt measure. Stopped using these cases before data could be obtained.


OLD FEDERAL CASE

W 250 gr
L 2.610"
S 2.268"
N .333"
C 89.0 gr
T .016"
FWV 92 gr


NEW FEDERAL CASE

W 252.5 gr
L 2.610"
S 2.268"
N .333"
C 89.0 gr
T .016"
FWV 91.3


ADG CASE

W 254.6 gr
L 2.216"
S 2.269"
N .332"
C 89 gr
T .015"
FWV 92


SIG SAUER

W 254.5-259.3 gr
FWV 91.3
Stopped using these cases before full data could be obtained.

Sound to me like you have your stuff figured out on the 300 mag. Takes alot of time and effort to get to this stage in the game. I know each rifle is a little different. But you have a lot of good information that saves time and effort for everyone else. Great job on keeping track of your records. This should help alot of loaders experienced or not. And can save them a ton of time appreciate your post. I've seen a lot of brass over the years. And it all depends on thicknesses volumes ECT. You have really nailed this. Thanks!

 

[Jared2700]

Here are some findings over a few batches of brass.

Thanks for your information. It is great not having to spend all the time and effort you have to get your results. This is very valuable information. Thanks for sharing your results.

 

[wildcat455]

OP:
Here's another thing you can try. I don't know how well it works across manufacturers, because I've never used it for that, but I know it works ok for brass of the same manufacturer to get you close to the same velocity in different case weights.

It involves a bit of simple math. I'll type out the equation and then give an example.

(W1-W2)/15=C

Not sure if I expressed that equation right, I'm no mathematician. Here it is broken down into something I can understand:
W1-W2=D
D/15=C

W1 is case weight you have a load for already.
W2 is new case weight you want to adjust the load to.
D is Difference (+ or - number depending on if you are going to be increasing the load, or decreasing it)
C is change in grains (+ or - number depending on if you are going to be increasing the load, or decreasing it).

This will only be an approximation, and it's up to you if you want to round up or down to closest 1/10th of a grain.

So here's the examples.
I have a load worked up with a charge weight of 74 grains, in a case that weighs 250 grains. The case that I want to use weighs 240 grains.

W1-W2= D or 250-240=10

D/15=C or 10/15= .6666

.6 grains is what I'll be adding to my original load number, because it is a positive number.

Conversely, If the case I was using with my 74 gr charge weight weighed less than the case I was moving the load to using the same numbers as in the original example, it would look like this:
W1-W2=D or 240-250= -10
-10=D
D/15=C or -10/15= -.6666

I would be reducing my load by .6 grains in the new case.

The proof in the pudding is to velocity check the new load with the new case, and make any adjustments from there to get back to your target velocity.

Clear as mud, right? LOL!