Adding a brake

it was the taper I was thinking about, I am familiar with an independent chuck (3 and 4 jaw). brass buffers are a good idea. does that take care of tooling marks too or do you tape the barrel in addition?

on the live center, you can make or buy brass inserts that cap the live center and keep the crown from getting damaged.


Yes when using the brass buffers (.015 to .020) it compresses enough to make up for the taper, and does not leave any tooling marks. No tape is required.

If for any reason the barrel moves, any brass can be removed using bore solvent but the barrel must be re-indicated and trued.

I have used the brass live center caps and they work good but I just don't like sticking anything
in the crown if I don't have to.

J E CUSTOM
 
JE Custom, you commented on how factory barrels are rarely concentric. That doesn't suprise me at all. So I wanted to pass on this experience I had to highlight how important it is to have the right gunsmith install a brake.

On my most recent full custom 338 RUM, I had a 4-port muscle brake installed. The gunsmith informed me that my barrel was a full .006" from the center of my bore. He was very surprised by this. I personally have no reference one way or another with any barrel, regardless of factory or custom, so I assume .006" is not typical for a custom barrel, and maybe even worse than the average factory barrel.

Anyways, the point is that the gunsmith did an excellent job at identifying the concentricity problem, and he cut the threads accordingly to the true bore center. Had he used a tap the job would not have turned out as well.

and JE, just like you mentioned, it was more work to blend the brake to the barrel. The gunsmith really did an excellent job, but if you look very close you can see exactly where he had to do some careful blend work to make it look good.

And now the rifle is a true 1/4 MOA shooter, and I have no doubt that is partly due to the correct installation of the brake. And in terms of accuracy, it sure doesn't seem to matter that the bore is not perfectly concentric to the outside profile of the barrel.
 
Some of you new guys don't know me but JE will vouch.

Holes on top of the brake, not for me, JEs video mirrors a conversation he and I had 3 years ago.

Concentricity on a thru hole, I have some more detailed experience on this since we talked and with .030" clearance on the bullet less than .005" TIR (.0025" out of center) has no measurable impact on accuracy, (disclaimer With FLAT BAFFLED brakes.) I have not tested this on angle ports.

Back in the day if a guy wanted top ports on a brake I would accommodate him by putting one small hole in the first port. if they wanted more I would send them somewhere else. The down force issue didn't surface last week It's been an issue many just refuse to admit. As JE said down force + gravity and you get to look at your targets feet, or by the time the bullet reaches it's target the spring back off a hard bench has you looking over it.
 
Jim, I've got your 4-port brake on my 338 RUM. it's relatively light for a big 338 and I swear it shoots like a .243. I really am amazed ar how well it works. No silly top holes and there is zero muzzle jump.
 
WOW, that's tight! All mine are .010"-.020" overbore for clearance.

That is to close for many reasons, first is the chance of a bullet strike. secondly with lots of testing
we found .020 to .025 to be ideal. less did nothing for recoil and more starting around .030, recoil reduction started to degrade.

There was also the effect of the bullet shock wave hitting the inside of the brake and effecting accuracy. the gas should have no effect on accuracy because the bullet has already left the brake
before the gas can effect it.

As to the top ports effect check out this video. =

J E CUSTOM
 
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That is to close for many reasons, first is the chance of a bullet strike. secondly with lots of testing
we found .020 to .025 to be ideal. less did nothing for recoil and more starting around .030, recoil reduction started to degrade.

There was also the effect of the bullet shock wave hitting the inside of the brake and effecting accuracy. the gas should have no effect on accuracy because the bullet has already left the brake
before the gas can effect it.

As to the top ports effect check out this video. = How important is seeing the hit? - YouTube

J E CUSTOM
Good point about shock waves, they have a very measurable effect on solid matter and controlling shock waves is essential to supersonic flight.

Shock waves precede the bullet leaving the muzzle and when they hit the baffles of the brake if they are not channeled in the right direction I can see where they'd have a definite affect on accuracy.

Never had thought about it from that perspective before. Thanks.
 
That is to close for many reasons, first is the chance of a bullet strike. secondly with lots of testing
we found .020 to .025 to be ideal. less did nothing for recoil and more starting around .030, recoil reduction started to degrade.

There was also the effect of the bullet shock wave hitting the inside of the brake and effecting accuracy. the gas should have no effect on accuracy because the bullet has already left the brake
before the gas can effect it.

As to the top ports effect check out this video. = How important is seeing the hit? - YouTube

J E CUSTOM
Good video but if I may, if you ever decide to do another one it would be very helpful to see the same rifles shot without a break for comparison.

Not all stock and action combos handle recoil in the same way so it would be interesting to look at barrel whip, muzzle rise, and whether or not the combo produced similar contact issues with/without a brake.
 
Good video but if I may, if you ever decide to do another one it would be very helpful to see the same rifles shot without a break for comparison.

Not all stock and action combos handle recoil in the same way so it would be interesting to look at barrel whip, muzzle rise, and whether or not the combo produced similar contact issues with/without a brake.

Thank You. The Videos were a tool to try and understand the problems that recoil caused, and in the process we discovered many things that effected the rifle.

In the Video we tested many different designs of brakes and in this video we were looking for a phenomenon that I had discovered with my 6.5 pound 338 RCM. every time I shot something I found my self looking at the ground. I had one of the best brakes made with top ports on it and was trying to figure out what was happening.

Normally while hunting you would not strap the rifle down and could not see this effect. But off
a by pod or deer blind window ledge the reaction would be easer to gauge the effects on Video.

The next Video we do, I will incorporate an un braked rifle like we did on the recoil test. We did test rifles without brakes and edited them out (To shorten the length of the Video) because they only produced more muzzle rise than all other with different kinds of brakes. On the Video you will see one rifle that has the brake with top ports and the same brake was tested with top ports plugged in the same test. with the brake, Excessive down force. with the top ports plugged, muzzle rise. The results of these test were, the better the brake is at reducing recoil the less the muzzle rise.

The one thing we did see with rifles that had nothing on the barrel Irregardless of barrel diameter
there was no visible barrel flexing. rifles are designed to recoil backwards and upwards depending a lot on the stocks shape. However the lighter the barrel the more twisting/torqueing it will do because of the bullet trying to straighten out the rifling upon firing.

And you are right about different stocks reacting differently. The stocks shape, drop and strength all have a Bearing on how it reacts to recoil. also we found that the heaver the barrel the more down force it placed on the stock. light barrels simply flexed down if the rifle was restrained in moving.
on the 300 rum in the test that was flexing the wrist area of the stock we discontinued testing it
in fear it would brake (It had a #5 barrel that was stronger than the stock).

In the accuracy test we found that .020 to .025 was the best muzzle brake bore diameter over the bullet diameter. Was/is this because of the shock wave striking the internal parts of the brake?
I can only guess at this point because the results were indicating something was going on and
the only thing that precedes the bullet is the shock wave. But until we can prove by a definitive test
It is the only reason makes sense. different brake designs may alter this also and require different minimum and maximum bore diameters for brakes.

There will be more test Videos because we want to understand the physics of our rifle systems and ways to improve on them. Also I have found that many of the excepted rules of muzzle brake design that I thought were fixed and un changeable were wrong and ether perception or opinion on my part and proof of there existence was the reason for the Video in the first place. All test were apples to apples so there would be no question as to there validity.

I have been stunned/shocked many times during the test we performed and came to the conclusion
that the rule is, "there is no rule unless you can prove it". Much more to learn.

Sorry about being so long winded

We will keep "Pressing On"

J E CUSTOM
 
Thank You. The Videos were a tool to try and understand the problems that recoil caused, and in the process we discovered many things that effected the rifle.

In the Video we tested many different designs of brakes and in this video we were looking for a phenomenon that I had discovered with my 6.5 pound 338 RCM. every time I shot something I found my self looking at the ground. I had one of the best brakes made with top ports on it and was trying to figure out what was happening.

Normally while hunting you would not strap the rifle down and could not see this effect. But off
a by pod or deer blind window ledge the reaction would be easer to gauge the effects on Video.

The next Video we do, I will incorporate an un braked rifle like we did on the recoil test. We did test rifles without brakes and edited them out (To shorten the length of the Video) because they only produced more muzzle rise than all other with different kinds of brakes. On the Video you will see one rifle that has the brake with top ports and the same brake was tested with top ports plugged in the same test. with the brake, Excessive down force. with the top ports plugged, muzzle rise. The results of these test were, the better the brake is at reducing recoil the less the muzzle rise.

The one thing we did see with rifles that had nothing on the barrel Irregardless of barrel diameter
there was no visible barrel flexing. rifles are designed to recoil backwards and upwards depending a lot on the stocks shape. However the lighter the barrel the more twisting/torqueing it will do because of the bullet trying to straighten out the rifling upon firing.

And you are right about different stocks reacting differently. The stocks shape, drop and strength all have a Bearing on how it reacts to recoil. also we found that the heaver the barrel the more down force it placed on the stock. light barrels simply flexed down if the rifle was restrained in moving.
on the 300 rum in the test that was flexing the wrist area of the stock we discontinued testing it
in fear it would brake (It had a #5 barrel that was stronger than the stock).

In the accuracy test we found that .020 to .025 was the best muzzle brake bore diameter over the bullet diameter. Was/is this because of the shock wave striking the internal parts of the brake?
I can only guess at this point because the results were indicating something was going on and
the only thing that precedes the bullet is the shock wave. But until we can prove by a definitive test
It is the only reason makes sense. different brake designs may alter this also and require different minimum and maximum bore diameters for brakes.

There will be more test Videos because we want to understand the physics of our rifle systems and ways to improve on them. Also I have found that many of the excepted rules of muzzle brake design that I thought were fixed and un changeable were wrong and ether perception or opinion on my part and proof of there existence was the reason for the Video in the first place. All test were apples to apples so there would be no question as to there validity.

I have been stunned/shocked many times during the test we performed and came to the conclusion
that the rule is, "there is no rule unless you can prove it". Much more to learn.

Sorry about being so long winded

We will keep "Pressing On"

J E CUSTOM
No apology needed. Complex things need to be explained plainly so sound bites just don't get it done.

Again much appreciate the sharing of info.
 
Sorry guys had computer issue thanks for all the information!! another question is it sports a 26" tube and I do a lot if not all my hunting is backpack style. Little worried about length and thought about maybe cutting to 24" to get overall 26" but little worried as its already a .5moa gun about messing with the crown and of course velocity loss.
 
Thank you for the informative video.

I am quoting you because you have some good points that maybe I can help to clear up.

#1= the minimum bore diameter should be no less than .020 thousandths larger than the bullet diameter. (Smaller than that can get dicey if the brake is not installed perfectly, and adds nothing
to its performance). .030 thousandths is the maximum bore diameter before brake efficiency is reduced.

#2= I cant attest to an accuracy problem with top vents, but I can show the results of what happens with them on VIDEO How important is seeing the hit? - YouTube

#3= There are many different types of brakes that ALL work to some degree, and none of them are quite. ear protection should be worn when shooting ANY firearm because My testing showed that DB levels are the same with or without a brake. Only the perceived sound is different because of the gases being directed in different directions. This VIDEO explains some differences in brakes and there function and efficiency is clear. with no mention of brands. Muzzle Brake Testing - YouTube also All testing was done on a machine that doesn't have any bias, it only measures recoil. A DB meter was used to check sound levels and was placed just behind the shooter for real world results.

There are many opinions on what it takes to make a good muzzle brake. Only impartial testing
identifies these differences, Not opinions.

J E CUSTOM
 
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