action and barrel coating

[etisll40]

I'd like a thread on this so we all can learn more and hear your experiences and where to get it done.

 

[tbrice23]

Its not a coating. Its a chemical change to the first couple of thousandths of surface.

 

[Garycrow]

...If that were happening the chromoly bolt in your stainless action would fail. Stainless also galls easier, that's why it has a chromoly bolt.

Not all stainless actions have chrome moly bolts. Most of my rifles are Winchester M70's and their bolts are stainless. I have had no problems with galling, keeping the lugs properly lubed will stop any galling tendencies.

Everything's a trade off. Stainless actions are plenty strong, if they weren't then most custom actions wouldn't be made from stainless. Heat treating plays a major role in the tensile strength so it's not as simple as saying chrome moly is stronger than stainless because it varies with the individual pieces. Depending upon the heat treating, a stainless action might very well be much stronger than it's chrome moly counterpart. Another metric is fracture toughness, resistance to fracturing, in which stainless is generally superior to 4140. Stainless actions have been in use for many years so it's safe to say that the strength of stainless is a non-issue. Yes, you can coat, nitride, or treat chrome moly in various manners to improve corrosion resistance but why bother with that when you can get the properties you want by using stainless. Also, coatings like cerakote wear off in high use areas after a while and I personally am not crazy about the painted look.

The only reason not to use stainless for an action that I consider to be halfway legitimate is some people find chrome moly to be smoother. I haven't noticed that effect but if it's something that bothers you in an action then that would be a reason for using chrome moly.

 

[etisll40]

My favorite look is a matte black barrel, preferably fluted. It doesn't look painted to me, more like stained like bluing. So what kind of coating do I have then? Not cerakote? or Cerakote, what is it?

 

[Edd]

The only reason not to use stainless for an action that I consider to be halfway legitimate is some people find chrome moly to be smoother. I haven't noticed that effect but if it's something that bothers you in an action then that would be a reason for using chrome moly.

Smoothness wouldn't be on my list of reasons. Strength, galling, and the option to blue in some instances would be mine.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

Many times when actions and bolts are made from the same material they will use two different temper's to resist galling. This applies to the majority of alloys ferrous or non.

Overall tensile properties arent really a considerable factor between stainless and chromoly because most manufacturers run mild tempers to get better toughness instead of hardness. They dont want either to fracture during the mild streching that takes place during firing.

At maximum tensile 17-4 and 416 will loose out to 4140 and 4130 by about 30-60k lbs, but i dont think any manufacturer is using these metals at the tempers required for those numbers. If tensile was a concern there are metals out there that could be used to trump all the above.

Often times stainless is easier to leave a nice finish on then chromoly and its resistance to corrosion is why i, personally, think custom action and barrel makers prefer to use it. I know i personally would rather cut 17-4 over any carbon based steel any day of the week. Im actually cutting 17-4 DH1150 right now as we speak.

Also QPQ ( quench polish quench ) is a very common stainless surface treatment that also somewhat acts as a case hardening further reducing galling and corrosion. This is very popular with stainless parts of all kinds including actions.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

My favorite look is a matte black barrel, preferably fluted. It doesn't look painted to me, more like stained like bluing. So what kind of coating do I have then? Not cerakote? or Cerakote, what is it?

Could be QPQ or black phosphate. Both end up flat black.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

.

I know of no coating that seals the surfaces of the bore.

Melonite/ nitriding treats (coats) everything. Montana rifleman says he has his done. Im very interested but there's not a lot of access it that treatment for me right now. Id like him to post pics of the finished product.

I used ceramicoat on a SS barrel once ,prepped the hell out of it and it still chips.

Here are some pics of the parts before the rifles were reassembled.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/back-black-nitride-121459/

I am very pleased with the finish. It is by far the most durable you will get on a gun. I put a small flat file on the under side of one of my barrels and did not scratch it (not a whole lot of pressure was used) When I turned the file on the corner of it's edge, I was able to make a mark.

The exterior black finish is actually a ferrous oxide coat and it can be fully or partially polished off with some good amount of effort. The under layer is the molecularly changed nitride surface which has an increased hardness and is extremely durable and corrosion resistant.

I plan to do all my actions and barrels in the future. I like the matte black finish but if someone wanted to cerakote a different color over it, that is possible.

Hopefully I'll get some pics of the completed rifles soon and I'll post here. I was going to start a thread on it but I've been having some pressure issues with the rifles and am working that out. Not sure what the nitride process might have to do with it but I might have done something in the post nitirding cleaning of the bores to cause it. I know others are not having the same issues including a member who lives near me. He has had very good results and is very happy.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

That would be very useful. I see guys talk about nitriding their barrels, but have seen very little reported in the way of concrete results from doing so. As I understand it, Meloniting is a method of HBN coating, correct?

H&M Metal Processing: What is Black Nitride?

http://blacknitride.com/img/corrosion-resistance.jpg

 

[tbrice23]

Thanks a bunch Mark.

 

[Paparock]

I have no experience with the product but I have been looking into this subject myself. It is called Dyna-Bore Coat at ExtremeGunCare It is described as formally known as Ultra-Bore Coat is now Dyna-Bore Coat. Dyna-Bore Coat was developed to eliminate or greatly reduce all types of fouling that occurs in firearm bores. Use the Search function on this site for other posts on the product.

The following article talks about Dyna-Bore Coat (DBC)> Revolutionary Rifle Products | Guns Magazine

It talks about it being a ceramic-based product. Essentially it's microscopic particles of clear ceramic in a quick-setting liquid glue, applied to the bore like any cleaning solvent, with a cotton patch or bore mop. After the glue dries, firing half a dozen "curing" shots melts and compresses the ceramic into small imperfections in the bore, but also lays a thin layer of the ceramic over the smooth portions of the bore. As a result the bore fouls much less, and is also protected from moisture. It goes into a lot of detail if you are interested.

I would like to hear from anyone with real world experience with this product myself.

 

[jsthntn247]

Norrell's Molly is easy to work with and tough as nails. Just did two barrled actions last week.

 

[Pdvdh]

It is described as formally known as Ultra-Bore Coat is now Dyna-Bore Coat. Dyna-Bore Coat was developed to eliminate or greatly reduce all types of fouling that occurs in firearm bores.

I would like to hear from anyone with real world experience with this product myself.

I purchased and applied Ultra-Bore Coat. It didn't do anything for my bores. I considered it a waste of time and money.

I know that the outdoor writer John Barsness really likes the product. I tried it after reading his articles. Maybe I got a bad batch. I followed the instructions and... nothing. No notable change in bore fouling. And I tried it on several bores.