When working up loads for hunting does it really matter to get that extra 150-200fps if your personal limits are 400yds and under , seem like I find pretty good load on the lower end of powder charges often or right around max , but I'm not a long range shooter don't really see any benefit to pushing it to the limit. Is there another take on this? Or other reason I'm not aware of pushing faster
Accuracy versus velocity
- Thread starter Rilow
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If only shooting to 400yds or so I see no need to push for more velocity accuracy is always of the most importance no matter what, velocity without accuracy is just a faster miss
7stw
Well-Known Member
I'd rather shoot an accurate, less fast rifle, then a fast rifle, that's LESS accurate.
With in reason!
With in reason!
Rhett Crider
Well-Known Member
I guess the wind will answer that question. There's a lot of different powders w/ different burn rates that can overcome that too. I've been switching to VV N5 series and it's made a difference for certain cartridges for me. Just takes a lot of time. 300 yds probably not, 400 yds is questionable. My opinion.
Rhett
Rhett
Using 6.5 and 30 caliber bullets last year, I watched both kids kill bull elk at 350-400 yards. Both rigs with short suppressed barrels had 2700 fps and 2775 fps muzzle velocity. Give me a tack driver with a good bc bullet and powder river let er buck.
Accuracy first, and I love pushing everything to the edge but accuracy always comes first, The Deer doesn't have any idea how fast the bullets going when it hits him
Wolf76
Well-Known Member
Generally, 1-2 hundred doesn't matter at 400 or less.
Some exceptions are:
A marginally adequate cartridge for the game hunted
An overly heavy bullet for cartridge
Bullets that fall below the minimum velocity for expansion at your maximum distance.
For a 308 and elk at 400, I'd try to find the extra 1-2 hundred fps (even sacrifice a little accuracy to do so). For deer, I'd take the most accurate load.
Some exceptions are:
A marginally adequate cartridge for the game hunted
An overly heavy bullet for cartridge
Bullets that fall below the minimum velocity for expansion at your maximum distance.
For a 308 and elk at 400, I'd try to find the extra 1-2 hundred fps (even sacrifice a little accuracy to do so). For deer, I'd take the most accurate load.
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I totally agree. I'm limited to 400 yards too and always seem to stumble on good accuracy nodes at lower charges. My little 6.5 CRDM load is 36.8 grains of RL-15. I could run that up to 39 (130 Accubond) but why bother if it's printing .37 MOA? My son dropped a big doe with it at 225 yards DRT. Same thing with my 6.5-284 and my .308. Low to moderate charges, great performance, less pounding on me and my equipment. What's not to like?
Savage 12BVSS
Well-Known Member
Agree with whats been said for sure. If given the option of both I take it, I know animal's don't know but I like it for some reason. Of the four guns I've worked up loads for 2 are right at the ragged edge, both stopped me with first pressure indicators accuracy never fell off. 1 is pretty much a max nosler book load also right to compressed load level. The fourth is a very mild load with lower fps and mild pressure. If you notice in most load books some loads work best at max while others prefer much lighter loads. My three hotter ones all reflect this in my nosler reloading manuals while the mild load is where the most accurate load recommended was. I always take info from the manual, then listen to the gun and follow the accuracy on paper to the conclusion.
Buck Fever
Well-Known Member
If you suck at reading wind, at some point it might make sense to trade accuracy for less wind drift but only at extended range.
Savage 12BVSS
Well-Known Member
Sorry, have to answer this thread twice. Probably too much sitting inside and not enough to do right now 
For me its not accuracy vs velocity.......its accuracy WITH velocity. Thats why sometimes it takes me a couple years to work-up the perfect load for each cartridge. I try way more than one powder before I pick one, and then there's OCW test, Distance off lands ladder, different primers, and at least two style bullets (match and hunting). Maybe its being a barrel nut guy but I never worry about shooting out a barrel, heck they are $275-350 and take less time to change than eating dinner. Maybe it's not PC....... but it's how I approach it and it's probably why 3 out of 4 of my load work-ups are a tad on the warm side, but manage to shoot pleasing groups.
For me its not accuracy vs velocity.......its accuracy WITH velocity. Thats why sometimes it takes me a couple years to work-up the perfect load for each cartridge. I try way more than one powder before I pick one, and then there's OCW test, Distance off lands ladder, different primers, and at least two style bullets (match and hunting). Maybe its being a barrel nut guy but I never worry about shooting out a barrel, heck they are $275-350 and take less time to change than eating dinner. Maybe it's not PC....... but it's how I approach it and it's probably why 3 out of 4 of my load work-ups are a tad on the warm side, but manage to shoot pleasing groups.
I like your style, I much the same myself, I got a freaking amazing fast and accurate 300WSM .....................But I think there is some more left in itSorry, have to answer this thread twice. Probably too much sitting inside and not enough to do right now
7stw
Well-Known Member
I think there are at least two others that think and operate the same. Just saying!Sorry, have to answer this thread twice. Probably too much sitting inside and not enough to do right now
benchracer
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The idea that accuracy and velocity are competing objectives is a False Premise. With modern powders, the high node often appears near max.
Over and over, I see people make statements about ceasing load development because groups opened up above a certain velocity or powder charge. People who do this are often leaving quite a bit of performance on the table because they stopped testing well short of max, never reaching the high node (where groups tighten again). The high node with modern powders is often MORE consistent than the node below it. ES and SD numbers from a chronograph will often reflect this.
Treating accuracy and velocity as competing objectives is likely to rob the shooter of higher velocity, flatter trajectory, reduced wind drift, and possibly improved terminal performance, in addition to greater consistency. This is true, regardless of the range to target. A shorter range to target only makes these factors less observable.
Accuracy and Velocity are NOT trade-offs. They are COMPLEMENTARY to one another. Is it possible that a given rifle, with a given component combination will be more accurate at a lower node? Of course it is! But, if BOTH the lower node and the high node are not tested, it is not possible to know. People who accept the idea that accuracy and velocity are competing objectives WILL NEVER KNOW!
Over and over, I see people make statements about ceasing load development because groups opened up above a certain velocity or powder charge. People who do this are often leaving quite a bit of performance on the table because they stopped testing well short of max, never reaching the high node (where groups tighten again). The high node with modern powders is often MORE consistent than the node below it. ES and SD numbers from a chronograph will often reflect this.
Treating accuracy and velocity as competing objectives is likely to rob the shooter of higher velocity, flatter trajectory, reduced wind drift, and possibly improved terminal performance, in addition to greater consistency. This is true, regardless of the range to target. A shorter range to target only makes these factors less observable.
Accuracy and Velocity are NOT trade-offs. They are COMPLEMENTARY to one another. Is it possible that a given rifle, with a given component combination will be more accurate at a lower node? Of course it is! But, if BOTH the lower node and the high node are not tested, it is not possible to know. People who accept the idea that accuracy and velocity are competing objectives WILL NEVER KNOW!
