A real target for beginning LR shooters

Korhil78

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First off, I am not a self-proclaimed great shooter but what I am is a realist. This is also not for the experienced LR shooter as you will already know all of this. There are a lot of people, I imagine, who are lurking on this website that never post, who are just getting started into LR shooting and don't understand what it really takes to get it done on an animal at Longrange. They log on here and see posts where people have posted targets at 800-1000 yards and there groups are 4-5" which is all good but their group is about 8" off point of aim on their target. I know because I was guilty of it when I first joined this site. Look at my 4" group at 950 yards that would have gut shot a deer because it's so far off my point of aim is what it's really saying.

So with shooters on here who are just getting into longer range shooting, I set up my target at 800 yards...it is a 24"x24" target. I had a slight carbon ring in this rifle so I cleaned the crap out of it the night before. Even scrubbed the throat with JB. I got my kestrel 5700 elite w/applied ballistics out and bluetoothed it to my rangefinder and ranged the target and it sent the distance to my kestrel and it gave me the elevation and windage from the information that I stored in it for my rifle and load. The wind was blowing from 9 o'clock at 4mph which called for 1.5 MOA left. Elevation at 800 yards for this rifle is 15.5 MOA. I dialed and shot and the cold clean barrel shot is the one to the right of the 10" orange circle. That could have been me or it could have been the clean cold bore shot everyone dreads but the shot wasn't that far off.

I then shot 10 shots letting the barrel cool after each shot. I also re-verified the wind on every shot with my kestrel. On the 6th shot, I noticed that the wind had changed from 4mph from 9 o'clock to 4mph from 11 o'clock. So to show how far off even a small change in wind direction can change your shot placement, I left my windage turret set for 4mph from 9 o'clock and shot. That is the shot to the left of the orange circle. Windage correction for 4mph from the 9 o'clock calls for 1.5 MOA left to compensate. Corrections for a 4mph wind from 11 o'clock calls for 1 MOA left. Just that small of a change in direction results in being 4" off of your point of aim plus what ever the shooter error incurs.

As you can see from that shot left, if a deer was facing right, it would be gut shot andI you may be chasing that deer a ways.

Most people on here already know all of this but a lot of beginning shooters may get bold by their groups being small but not on their point of aim like others have posted pics of and think they can be successful at longrange shots on animals. This will lead to utter failure. I shoot a lot for practice at these ranges and am meticulous at reloading and as you can see, my 9 shot group with each wind correction is not SUPER tight but it is within the kill zone and that's what counts. My load is accurate and consistent but sometimes I am not. Just keep in mind that groups are important but hitting at your point of aim repeatedly is equally or more important and it takes a lot of work. I hope this doesn't come off wrong, I'm not a great shot and not trying to brag as you can see I pulled one shot high and the group is not outstanding. I just think to many people get carried away about their small groups without worrying so much about where the shots are.
 
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My personal preference, at least for me, is to keep my maximum range to where I know I can keep all of my shots in a 6" target. Like you are pointing out, not a 6" group, but a 6" target. I'll admit, that makes my max range for game a lot closer than I would like, but we have to start somewhere. Also, that distance varies based on what position I am shooting from, and the only way you can find that out is by shooting from field positions.
 
Sure you can do it without but it takes a lot of experience. So no you don't need one but it sure makes it a lot more certain (at least for me). I practice a lot with it and it has extended my range knowing exactly what the wind is doing. I have been shooting longer ranges for quite a few years now. I used to do it without a wind meter but my distances were a lot more limited because the further out you get the more the error builds up even if you are off on the wind call 1-2 mph.

they make cheaper models of kestrels than the 5700.
 
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First off, I am not a self-proclaimed great shooter but what I am is a realist. This is also not for the experienced LR shooter as you will already know all of this. There are a lot of people, I imagine, who are lurking on this website that never post, who are just getting started into LR shooting and don't understand what it really takes to get it done on an animal at Longrange. They log on here and see posts where people have posted targets at 800-1000 yards and there groups are 4-5" which is all good but their group is about 8" off point of aim on their target. I know because I was guilty of it when I first joined this site. Look at my 4" group at 950 yards that would have gut shot a deer because it's so far off my point of aim is what it's really saying.

So with shooters on here who are just getting into longer range shooting, I set up my target at 800 yards...it is a 24"x24" target. I had a slight carbon ring in this rifle so I cleaned the crap out of it the night before. Even scrubbed the throat with JB. I got my kestrel 5700 elite w/applied ballistics out and bluetoothed it to my rangefinder and ranged the target and it sent the distance to my kestrel and it gave me the elevation and windage from the information that I stored in it for my rifle and load. The wind was blowing from 9 o'clock at 4mph which called for 1.5 MOA left. Elevation at 800 yards for this rifle is 15.5 MOA. I dialed and shot and the cold clean barrel shot is the one to the right of the 10" orange circle. That could have been me or it could have been the clean cold bore shot everyone dreads but the shot wasn't that far off.

I then shot 10 shots letting the barrel cool after each shot. I also re-verified the wind on every shot with my kestrel. On the 6th shot, I noticed that the wind had changed from 4mph from 9 o'clock to 4mph from 11 o'clock. So to show how far off even a small change in wind direction can change your shot placement, I left my windage turret set for 4mph from 9 o'clock and shot. That is the shot to the left of the orange circle. Windage correction for 4mph from the 9 o'clock calls for 1.5 MOA left to compensate. Corrections for a 4mph wind from 11 o'clock calls for 1 MOA left. Just that small of a change in direction results in being 4" off of your point of aim plus what ever the shooter error incurs.

As you can see from that shot left, if a deer was facing right, it would be gut shot andI you may be chasing that deer a ways.

Most people on here already know all of this but a lot of beginning shooters may get bold by their groups being small but not on their point of aim like others have posted pics of and think they can be successful at longrange shots on animals. This will lead to utter failure. I shoot a lot for practice at these ranges and am meticulous at reloading and as you can see, my 9 shot group with each wind correction is not SUPER tight but it is within the kill zone and that's what counts. My load is accurate and consistent but sometimes I am not. Just keep in mind that groups are important but hitting at your point of aim repeatedly is equally or more important and it takes a lot of work. I hope this doesn't come off wrong, I'm not a great shot and not trying to brag as you can see I pulled one shot high and the group is not outstanding. I just think to many people get carried away about their small groups without worrying so much about where the shots are.
Well written I've taken shots out to 600 yards on big game under calm conditions and never had a problem, with practice it's a chip shot. Please note under calm conditions I said, little breeze if any and an unaware animal. I once had an opportunity at a whitetail doe broadside at 429 yards nice calm day snowflakes falling straight down, dialed in the dope and squeezed the trigger on my 22-250 which I know like the inside of my eyelid. Doe stood there for a few seconds while I assumed I missed. I reloaded and double checked that I adjusted elevation the right direction (hey my 4 year old was watching). Got ready to shoot laser again and she was gone. Told my disappointed boy well I missed (dads never miss) but let's go find her tracks and make sure. We got to the multflora rose bush she was feeding on there she lay with a 50 grain bullet thru her heart! Perfect conditions tho. The next year same exact spot 257 wby I built by myself wind right to left at a nasty clip. Head up my butt because well I had horsepower in the chamber. Squeezed the trigger doe vanished into the swamp with her front right leg flopping around.looked for her 3 hours in wet golden rod and alder swamp. Lost her almost. Next morning I was 1/4 mile or so past where I lost her on the other end of the swamp. Noticed deer sneaking thru brush about 200 yards away. Go figure 1 had a good limp. When she presented a decent shot the 90 grain Sierra hollopoint did its job! Turned out to be the doe I hit the day before bullet drifted along with any other factors that didn't help from the poa behind her shoulder. Impacted her brisket breaking her opposite leg. Thank god I was blessed with the opportunity to finish my mistake! A Friend at the local gun shop was talking to me about shooting deer at long range later in the season. Now to me I don't consider 600 yards long range but where I hunt a 400 yard shot is a long one. I told him proudly that I'd never shoot at an animal in high winds past 200 yards again! I owe them more respect than the risk of a wounding shot! I guess moral of the story is I hate wind!!!!! Pic below is a 50 grain Speer tnt I recovered from doe with 22-250.
 

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Sure you can do it without but it takes a lot of experience. So no you don't need one but it sure makes it a lot more certain (at least for me). I practice a lot with it and it has extended my range knowing exactly what the wind is doing. I have been shooting longer ranges for quite a few years now. I used to do it without a wind meter but my distances were a lot more limited because the further out you get the more the error builds up even if you are off on the wind call 1-2 mph.

they make cheaper models of kestrels than the 5700.

I've seen the Kestrel Sportsman for $250 from Cameraland. Says it can be upgraded to the 5700. I'm already deep in money on this new fun cash sink, but if it's a night/day difference then I understand the need for it.
 
What will be best for you is to practice reading the wind at the beginning and practicing in it to learn your limitations that way. Save up for the kestrel for later. Practicing is the key though to learn what you can and can't do. Set yourself up a target with a 8 or 10" center and you will learn real quickly the yardages you can and can't do. You will also find the more you practice at it, the better you will get at farther distances.

I limit myself to game at 800 and under just because past that, you start really having issues with wind blowing one direction where you are at but blowing another direction between you and the animal. That can be really detrimental.
 
New shooter here too. Would you say it's necessary to have the Kestrel weather meter? Could it be done without? Maybe an experienced shooter could chime in.

Thank you.
To answer your question.....yes and no. I really like having my Kestrel, but in hindsight, I could do without it. I have the elite model and like having the access to the custom drag models, but they are not necessary for hunting purposes. What i mean by that is "hunting ranges". I personally won't take a perfect wind condition shot on a central Texas whitetail over 700yrds (and I mean PERFECT). Shooting targets past that, I guess it helps? Really don't know?

The one thing that the Kestrel has helped me learn is that I have no idea what the wind is doing? You can take your reading at your position and that is it. Shooting across a valley or from hill to hill changes the wind dramatically! Even at 500yrds. Pretty much every shot I take on my personal range with a cross wind I can double the amount of windage the Kestrel calls for because I'm shooting across 2 valleys with an upslope from left to right. The wind always accelerates between me and my target. Venturi effect.

Knowledge and practice (many, many bullets down range) are far more valuable than a $600 gadget. Don't get me wrong, my learning curve was shortened dramatically with the use of the Kestrel, but now days I pay more attention to the Topography and experience to make my wind calls.
 
Agreed...I have never had to shoot an animal across a canyon and that would definitely limit my distance. If you are going to shoot animals in terrain like that, you need to be practicing in terrain like that.
 
What I have been trying to do is play the old guessing games. How far is it? Wind speed and direction? Then break out the rangefinder and the Kestrel to see how close the guesses are. I don't do that when hunting, but if I am out hiking for work or out to practice I try to see how well I do. Kind of a self calibration type of thing, and it gives me something to do when I'm not collecting data. Pay attention to how things move in the wind where you are and between you and the target. The Kestrel can give you a good indication of conditions where you are, but in order to translate that over distance, you need to adjust based on observations towards the target.
 
It's a good conversation to have. There are a lot of people on this website with a ton of experience. Maybe they will chime in too. A lot shy away from these topics because some people think differently about longrange hunting even though this is a longrange hunting site. But I can delete the posts that are super counter productive 😁
 
I previously posted that I wouldn't take a shot at 800 if the wind is over 10 mph. I meant at 600 yards. If the wind is 5mph and below, I will do 800. Things have to be pretty dang near perfect for me to shoot an animal that far.
 
I think one of the big things having a wind meter will do is teach you what a X MPH wind feels like and in turn looks like via mirage. I spent a lot of time carrying mine around even when I'm not shooting and looking at conditions and seeing what a X MPH wind actually is. Then you can accurately gauge wind and start dealing with multiple winds at distance. Reading mirage through your scope or spotting scope that is what will actually get you putting rounds on target at distance or in multi-wind field conditions. But a wind meter will help you get there in my opinion
 
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