A little confused.

[shooters]

Well in your last post you stated that you had the parallax adjusted correctly with the 50 and the 100 yard shots and from what you are saying, they shot well. Now on the 200 yd shots, you say that you had the parallax adjusted to infinity which in my opinion is not the adjustment setting that you want. You want the adjustment for 200 yds. And on the 300 yard shots, you didn't adjust the parallax at all and it shot poorly so you need to adjust the parallax for 300 yds on that one. I am just going off what I am reading.

And for goodness sake! You are not shooting out to 1000 yds so take it off of 24 power! Try a lower power on the scope and that might help as well as adjusting the parallax.

If nothing else that you are trying works, then try switching out scopes to see if that is the problem.

The other thing. If I wasn't adjusting my parellax correctly, shouldn't I have at least had consistant groups whether they were high, low, left or right, shouldn't have have been together? I understand what your saying. My shots would possible not be where they should have been, but as long as I didn't adjust the parellax between those 3 shots, I would think they should at least be tight groups. Thanks for the help again.

 

[Scot E]

They also mentioned that whether I had the scope set on 6 power or 24 power, it made no difference on POI as well.

It isn't supposed to make a difference in POI that is true IF there scope is working properly. If there is a problem you can see varying POI's. I have seen it many times.

I would personally get rid of the strapped down led sled. Not saying it isn't working but I cant personally envision how you can get any consistency on how that sled moves during recoil with straps. They would have to slip and stretch the same each time. That sounds suspect to me. Repeatability is critical.

 

[Scot E]

The other thing. If I wasn't adjusting my parellax correctly, shouldn't I have at least had consistant groups whether they were high, low, left or right, shouldn't have have been together? I understand what your saying. My shots would possible not be where they should have been, but as long as I didn't adjust the parellax between those 3 shots, I would think they should at least be tight groups. Thanks for the help again.

True, if you are holding your head in the exact same place each time.

So the bullet holes are all round and not oblong at all correct? And you are shooting in a no wind condition?

 

[Korhil78]

Well, first off, I know these things can get to you mentally really bad. I think that we have all been there at one point another with a gun that wasn't working for us. Just take a step back from it, relax and breathe. Changing from whatever power to 24 power will not change your POI unless your scope is jacked up. But it will make it seem like you are moving around a lot when looking throug the scope and trying to shoot. But I don't buy the fact that you can put the parallax to infinity for any range and it won't matter. I would adjust it to whatever range you need and shoot it consistently.

It is hard to diagnos this kind of problem over the internet. Try this:

Shoot at 100 with the parallax adjusted for 100 yds, then 200 adj. for 200 yd parallax then 300 and see how it goes.

If that doesn't fix it, change the scope and do the same thing. If it shoots just as bad with the second scope then you can eliminate the scope being the problem. If it shoots as you want it too then you KNOW the scope is the problem and you can go from there. Just keep posting the results.

 

[shooters]

True, if you are holding your head in the exact same place each time.

So the bullet holes are all round and not oblong at all correct? And you are shooting in a no wind condition?

Zero wind. Bullet holes are all round. I would think that lead sled or not, repeatablility when looking through the scope on or off the scope would always have to be the same, and I don't really see a any difference when looking through using sled or bags. You still have to hold your head the same either way. Good point though. I will try tomorrow and take your advice. Thanks.

 

[shooters]

Also, I keep seeing post about, "adjust your scope parellax to 200 yards, or whatever range your shooting at." How in the heck do I adjust it to 200 yards or other yardages? I just set up at whatever distance, look through the scope, turn it to where its clear, and aim, fire. There are no yardage numbers on the dial, but there are marks. Where is 200, 300, etc...? Whether its 50 yards or 300 yards, I turn it to where its clear. How do I achieve the correct setting for a set yardage then? Thanks.

 

[Scot E]

Zero wind. Bullet holes are all round. I would think that lead sled or not, repeatablility when looking through the scope on or off the scope would always have to be the same, and I don't really see a any difference when looking through using sled or bags. You still have to hold your head the same either way. Good point though. I will try tomorrow and take your advice. Thanks.

I was talking about two different things. Holding your head in exactly the same spot would be necessary to shoot good groups with a scope out of parallax.

The way the gun recoils off the sled deals more with changes in barrel movement before the bullet leaves the barrel. I noticed in a previous post you mentioned that someone had told you that you didn't need to worry about this because the bullet is already gone. Not true. Follow through is just as important with a rifle as it is with a bow.

Picture the gun changing POI because it comes off the sled differently the same way you do with archery and your bow grip. You can see the same sight picture through your peep sight and pins but shoot way different groups just because of the way the bow recoils off your hand. This is similar to the gun rest and grip on a rifle.

 

[shooters]

Oh, I see. I never would have thought it was as critical with a rifle. Seems a lot of people would be having this issue. I will for sure shoot off bags only tomorrow, same way each time. Makes perfect sence to me. Hope its that simple and all goes well tomorrow. Big help, thanks again!

 

[Korhil78]

My mistake. I have never shot through a sightron scope so I thought since it had an infinity mark that it would have the yardage marks. If you are adjusting it each time to where it is clear and making sure that the crosshairs dont move then you are doing that right. Like I said, if all else fails, try a different scope to see if the sightron is messed up. Its the only way to know for sure if its the scope or not.

 

[4xforfun]

Also, I keep seeing post about, "adjust your scope parellax to 200 yards, or whatever range your shooting at." How in the heck do I adjust it to 200 yards or other yardages? I just set up at whatever distance, look through the scope, turn it to where its clear, and aim, fire. There are no yardage numbers on the dial, but there are marks. Where is 200, 300, etc...? Whether its 50 yards or 300 yards, I turn it to where its clear. How do I achieve the correct setting for a set yardage then? Thanks.

Keep wiggiling your head while you adjust the paralex untill the cross hair does not move on the target. Hopefully (usually) that is also when the target is most in focus.

 

[shooters]

Well, after hunting today with the wife's itty bitty Rem Model 7 243 (don't laugh), I went to the range to once again take all the advice given and try it out. Things I tried.

1. Same loads as previously used. Moved my head side to side, up and down. To be honest, I didn't notice anything different when I adjusted the parellax. The DOT retical didn't seem to move any more or less when I moved while adjusting parellax.

2. Shot off bags, not the sled. No difference. Crappy groups from 200 yards and on. I might add, I've never had this issue with shooting off the sled before, but I'm taking all the advice I can get from you guys and trying it. All VERY much appreciated.

3. Shot different loads. Everything remained the same, except powder charges. Shot 4 shot groups of 91, 92, 93, 94, & 95. Cleaned gun before each new 4 shot group. All at 100 yards. I may be crazy, but I really didn't see too big of a difference between them all. The groups did slightly hit in different locations than the others, but they were all IMO decent groups, with MAX load being the best. Go figure. Good thing the range is a private range and the guy who ownes it is a gun nut with every tool available. I just bring LOTS and LOTS...did I say LOTs? .... of powder for this problem I have. I pretty much have been shooting/cleaning/loading for 3 days!

4. So taking the max load, I went to 200 yards. Again, all over the place. I tried 3 with Sled, 3 with bags. I did not clean gun before second group, but did allow about 15 min to cool barrel. I noticed absolutley no difference accept, this time, instead of the normal, oh I don't know, 10 inch group, now it was down to about 7 or 8 inches.

5. I remember hearing in the past that sometimes a barrel will shoot a little better fouled up. So I plinked a few rounds down range at random targets. Had 9 rounds through bore now, went back to 200 yards and....oh, wait, need to reload.....again. Reloaded with new fullsized brass again, remember, I have been doing everything as far as reloading exactly the same. Not reusing brass, not using fire formed brass, all new and re-fullsized, trimed, necks turned, weighed, etc.... Good thing I bought 200 rounds and spent hours and hours the weeks before preping brass. Anyway, again, shot 200 yards and no go. So, I'm done. This has become very expensive in bullets and powder. I'm going to drop gun off at our local "guns smith," tell him to figure it out for me. 1 more expense. I don't care if its something simple like my reloading skills, something ignorant like my knowledge of parellax, or something major like I need to throw the gun or scope in the garbage. I have to have this thing up and running before Dec 8th for a Texas hunt. I'm obviously going to finish off the last 2 days of Montana's season with a childs .243. So frustrated, but I do appreciate all the amazing advice other members have given me and the time you guys have taken to help. Anymore thoughts would still be greatly appreciated. All the info will help me on other rifles I will load for. Thanks a ton!

Jason

 

[WildRose]

Well, after hunting today with the wife's itty bitty Rem Model 7 243 (don't laugh), I went to the range to once again take all the advice given and try it out. Things I tried.

1. Same loads as previously used. Moved my head side to side, up and down. To be honest, I didn't notice anything different when I adjusted the parellax. The DOT retical didn't seem to move any more or less when I moved while adjusting parellax.

2. Shot off bags, not the sled. No difference. Crappy groups from 200 yards and on. I might add, I've never had this issue with shooting off the sled before, but I'm taking all the advice I can get from you guys and trying it. All VERY much appreciated.

3. Shot different loads. Everything remained the same, except powder charges. Shot 4 shot groups of 91, 92, 93, 94, & 95. Cleaned gun before each new 4 shot group. All at 100 yards. I may be crazy, but I really didn't see too big of a difference between them all. The groups did slightly hit in different locations than the others, but they were all IMO decent groups, with MAX load being the best. Go figure. Good thing the range is a private range and the guy who ownes it is a gun nut with every tool available. I just bring LOTS and LOTS...did I say LOTs? .... of powder for this problem I have. I pretty much have been shooting/cleaning/loading for 3 days!

4. So taking the max load, I went to 200 yards. Again, all over the place. I tried 3 with Sled, 3 with bags. I did not clean gun before second group, but did allow about 15 min to cool barrel. I noticed absolutley no difference accept, this time, instead of the normal, oh I don't know, 10 inch group, now it was down to about 7 or 8 inches.

5. I remember hearing in the past that sometimes a barrel will shoot a little better fouled up. So I plinked a few rounds down range at random targets. Had 9 rounds through bore now, went back to 200 yards and....oh, wait, need to reload.....again. Reloaded with new fullsized brass again, remember, I have been doing everything as far as reloading exactly the same. Not reusing brass, not using fire formed brass, all new and re-fullsized, trimed, necks turned, weighed, etc.... Good thing I bought 200 rounds and spent hours and hours the weeks before preping brass. Anyway, again, shot 200 yards and no go. So, I'm done. This has become very expensive in bullets and powder. I'm going to drop gun off at our local "guns smith," tell him to figure it out for me. 1 more expense. I don't care if its something simple like my reloading skills, something ignorant like my knowledge of parellax, or something major like I need to throw the gun or scope in the garbage. I have to have this thing up and running before Dec 8th for a Texas hunt. I'm obviously going to finish off the last 2 days of Montana's season with a childs .243. So frustrated, but I do appreciate all the amazing advice other members have given me and the time you guys have taken to help. Anymore thoughts would still be greatly appreciated. All the info will help me on other rifles I will load for. Thanks a ton!

Jason

Try it without cleaning between groups. See if it doesn't shoot better after 3-4 "foulers".

 

[Scot E]

Time to try a different scope too. Doing that has the potential of really narrowing down where the issue is coming from.

 

[Korhil78]

It has to be your scope shooters. No way it would be shooting a 10 inch group well it could be your barrel too but I really believe that it is your scope. Like I said before, just get a scope off of one of your guns and put it on that one. If you don't put your own scopes on, then get your smith to do it. I would bet you lunch that something is wrong with that scope.