A different type of "long range hunting" - Shotgunning with high density shot

[amyjune]

Are you using #4 steel ? I see you are in CA also which is lead free

Mostly Nevada so I use lead.

 

[Pdvdh]

The 18g/cc tungsten shot (TSS) is way deadly on big birds. Way expensive also.

I killed a sandhill crane last year between 130-135yds with strictly body hits. A 2oz TSS duplex load consisting of 1oz #4 and 1oz #5. Hit the crane with 5-6 pellets. All passed completely thru the body. Crane was dead before it hit the ground.

Also killed cranes at 99yd and 120yd. #6 TSS will pass thru the thickest section of a sandhill crane body at 100yds.

Mt shotgun patterns my duplex TSS load 80% into 30" circle at 80yds and 50% into 30" circle at 100yds.

I'm not a good enough wing shot to shoot at passing by cranes at 100-125yds. I typically load a TSS in the magazine for the 3rd shot, hoping for a straight away shot after the first two shots, when they're on their way out. The I only need to know the proper holdover.

My shotgun pattern is right on at 80yds. 18"low at 100yds. About 4' low at 135yds.

In all truthfulness, the crane I shot at 130+yds, I hit the crane that was 4' behind and 2' lower than the bird I was aiming for. They were slightly flaring. Not a dead on shot.

We don't get lots of shots at cranes, so I don't mind the cost for the ~4-6 TSS shells I may fire in one season.

I have no doubts I could kill a 20lb turkey cleanly at 100 yds with my 2oz #4/#5 duplex TSS shell, with strictly body hits. I think I could kill them cleanly at 120 yds, based on their performance on the cranes. But no turkeys in Alaska...

 

[Pdvdh]

I also load some TSS buckshot loads for bear defense. #4 buckshot and single 0 buckshot. It makes a great in-your-face bear defense round from a short barrelled shotgun. But head shots only, IMO.

I'm not overly impressed using the TSS buckshot for body hits on large game. We finished off a wounded bear grizzly with the TSS single 0 buckshot once. Smallish bear at about 10yds in the willows and ladders. Complete body penetration thru the chest, but the shock and knockdown effect was underwhelming. Great for skull shots, but only the body was visible in a small opening.

I get ~14" measured penetration in live birch tree trunks with the single 0 TSS buckshot.

Know a guy that's killed some hogs and deer using TSS #4 buckshot in the south. It kills, but generally requires some tracking with body hits. With dogs, recovery is good. But without dogs, he says the hogs/deer bleed very little, and recovery can be difficult in thick woods. He stopped using TSS buckshot on large game. Tried it, but same as I, was underwhelmed with the lack of knockout/knockdown effect with body hits, in spite of the good penetration.

 

[codyadams]

I also load some TSS buckshot loads for bear defense. #4 buckshot and single 0 buckshot. It makes a great in-your-face bear defense round from a short barrelled shotgun. But head shots only, IMO.

I'm not overly impressed using the TSS buckshot for body hits on large game. We finished off a wounded bear grizzly with the TSS single 0 buckshot once. Smallish bear at about 10yds in the willows and ladders. Complete body penetration thru the chest, but the shock and knockdown effect was underwhelming. Great for skull shots, but only the body was visible in a small opening.

I get ~14" measured penetration in live birch tree trunks with the single 0 TSS buckshot.

Know a guy that's killed some hogs and deer using TSS #4 buckshot in the south. It kills, but generally requires some tracking with body hits. With dogs, recovery is good. But without dogs, he says the hogs/deer bleed very little, and recovery can be difficult in thick woods. He stopped using TSS buckshot on large game. Tried it, but same as I, was underwhelmed with the lack of knockout/knockdown effect with body hits, in spite of the good penetration.

I can totally see that with TSS buckshot, being round and hard, it will not flatten out and do more damage like a lead round ball can do out of a shotgun or muzzle loader, it just stays round and punches through, much like a full metal jacket would do, and doesn't even cut a hole, but being round, more "moves" the tissue out of the way, allowing it to partially close back up after passing through. It certainly will punch through though!!

My father is using TSS 18 g/cc in his tri star semi auto .410, a super light handy little gun, and using #9's with a 3/8 oz load I believe, after trying a couple things is getting a 100% pattern inside a 24" circle at 40 yards, with that being around 130+ pellets going from memory, same pellet count as a 1-1/8 oz of steel #2's. This makes an honest 80 yard turkey gun, putting enough pellets on a turkey neck and head to quickly dispatch them, and having plenty of penetration to do the job. It is rather devastating on geese and ducks as well, I watched my dad "sky bust" a canada goose around 70 + or - yards, it crumpled and dumped to the ground. I knocked feathers out of a goose next to his with my 12 gauge using 1-1/8 oz of steel #2's going 1550 fps, and the goose didn't even slow down. The TSS 15 and especially 18 g/cc is flat put insane. Makes a .410 outperform a 12 gauge with conventional ammo. It's expensive, but when only using 3/8 oz at a time, it goes pretty far, and your shoulder appreciates too. Great for having kids hunt turkeys too

 

[Troutslayer2]

Having tried most all of the options I only shoot Black Cloud when non-toxic is required, mostly waterfowl but also upland on WMAs or reservations. It seems to be the best value, patterns well and as good of knockdown power as anything. I have tried a lot of fancy choke tubes and I really don't see much advantage to spending the money on them unless you are competing.

 

[Wedgy]

Having tried most all of the options I only shoot Black Cloud when non-toxic is required, mostly waterfowl but also upland on WMAs or reservations. It seems to be the best value, patterns well and as good of knockdown power as anything. I have tried a lot of fancy choke tubes and I really don't see much advantage to spending the money on them unless you are competing.

You could shoot #10 TTS with a .410 3/8oz giving ~190 pellets and will be lethal on any duck to 60 yards with no recoil like a 12 gauge, which honestly is what I don't like about waterfowl hunting, magnum steel loads with horrible ballistics. I bought bulk TSS and ended up about $26 per pound which gives about 42 shells worth at 3/8oz loads. It probably comes out cheaper than the Black Cloud and easy on the shoulder too.

 

[codyadams]

You could shoot #10 TTS with a .410 3/8oz giving ~190 pellets and will be lethal on any duck to 60 yards with no recoil like a 12 gauge, which honestly is what I don't like about waterfowl hunting, magnum steel loads with horrible ballistics. I bought bulk TSS and ended up about $26 per pound which gives about 42 shells worth at 3/8oz loads. It probably comes out cheaper than the Black Cloud and easy on the shoulder too.

And better performance to boot....