7mm08 vs 6.5 creedmore

[pondskipper]

I know this has been discussed before but everything I have read seems to always turn out the same, people get off topic and the issue never honestly seems to get truly resolved or people just start throwing other clamberings into the mix, this is an honest to god good question I have and hopefully everyone will stay on topic. So here's my issue, I shoot steel quite regularly at 1000 yards, I do so with a 20" barrel 5r mils pec Remington in 308 Winchester shooting 175gr Sierra match kings, I'm getting ready to build an m40a5 clone, I've always liked the idea of using something with the 308 parent case but with bullets of a much higher bc, especially the 7mm variety, I know the velocitys I'll get with a 25" tube will be slower in 7mm08 than they would be with a 6.5 creedmore but the difference in bc helps to make up for that a great deal, the 7mm bore should give a bit longer barrel life as well compared to a 6.5mm. As for bullets, swamp works has a 168gr with a published bc of .690 (probably a bit optimistic) and there's always the 162gr amax at .625 and to round it out, the Berger 168gr at .617 I think. Now with a 25" tube (24 from the front of the recoil lug) I should be able to push them to 2600-2650 without any undue pressures I would think plus there's the fact lapua has come out with 7mm08 brass now which raised my eyebrow even higher. Now my question is, why on gods green earth don't we see or hear of more people shooting the 7mm08? Is it not as inherently accurate? It shouldn't be any harder on barrels than the vast majority of 6.5mm offerings, almost all major companies have bullets with very respectable bc's. So what gives? Sure the 6.5 mm may have a slightly and I do mean very slightly flatter trajectory out to 1000 yards but who cares when you've been shooting that far with a weak kneed, snub nose 308 that's already having to shoot over a 2 story house to get there, either will be a vast improvement in both drop and drift than the 308 for sure, so, is there anything wrong with the 7mm8?

 

[J E Custom]

I know this has been discussed before but everything I have read seems to always turn out the same, people get off topic and the issue never honestly seems to get truly resolved or people just start throwing other clamberings into the mix, this is an honest to god good question I have and hopefully everyone will stay on topic. So here's my issue, I shoot steel quite regularly at 1000 yards, I do so with a 20" barrel 5r mils pec Remington in 308 Winchester shooting 175gr Sierra match kings, I'm getting ready to build an m40a5 clone, I've always liked the idea of using something with the 308 parent case but with bullets of a much higher bc, especially the 7mm variety, I know the velocitys I'll get with a 25" tube will be slower in 7mm08 than they would be with a 6.5 creedmore but the difference in bc helps to make up for that a great deal, the 7mm bore should give a bit longer barrel life as well compared to a 6.5mm. As for bullets, swamp works has a 168gr with a published bc of .690 (probably a bit optimistic) and there's always the 162gr amax at .625 and to round it out, the Berger 168gr at .617 I think. Now with a 25" tube (24 from the front of the recoil lug) I should be able to push them to 2600-2650 without any undue pressures I would think plus there's the fact lapua has come out with 7mm08 brass now which raised my eyebrow even higher. Now my question is, why on gods green earth don't we see or hear of more people shooting the 7mm08? Is it not as inherently accurate? It shouldn't be any harder on barrels than the vast majority of 6.5mm offerings, almost all major companies have bullets with very respectable bc's. So what gives? Sure the 6.5 mm may have a slightly and I do mean very slightly flatter trajectory out to 1000 yards but who cares when you've been shooting that far with a weak kneed, snub nose 308 that's already having to shoot over a 2 story house to get there, either will be a vast improvement in both drop and drift than the 308 for sure, so, is there anything wrong with the 7mm8?

The 7/08 is a very good 1000 yard cartridge and has won many long range matches. David Tubbs won many 1000 yard High power matches until he developed his own 6.5.

Now days the trend is to shoot bigger cartridges and custom cartridges (Wild Cats) but that does not mean that the 7/08 is not up to the task.

It is a very accurate round and capable of long shots on game. It is also a very popular round for bolt action pistols for hunting 400 to 600 yards.

I also bought some of 7/08 Lapua brass, And it is awesome and seems to have improved the accuracy and consistency.

J E CUSTOM

 

[pondskipper]

I had no idea David tubb used it competitively, for that matter I couldn't ever find where anyone had ever used it competitively, it makes perfect sense to me but I guess people just tend to roll with whatever's trendy without much though to what's available, the thought of it always made sense to me.

 

[pondskipper]

Now before anyone thinks I'm bashing the 6.5 creedmore, you couldn't be farther from the truth, I believe every cartridge has its place, in fact I'm not even saying the 7mm08 is better, I just don't understand why you don't see more people utilizing the 7mm08.

 

[steelshooter]

I also asked why we don't see more 708s in PR style comps, and the common answer was recoil compared to a 6.5mm. With 7mm needing at least 168gn bullets for best results at 1k, recoil then becomes similar to a 308. I love my 708 and have confidence in it. Although I have little experience with a 6.5, they are definitely the favourite right now. But I agree, you should get good barrel life out of your 7mm.

 

[J E Custom]

I had no idea David tubb used it competitively, for that matter I couldn't ever find where anyone had ever used it competitively, it makes perfect sense to me but I guess people just tend to roll with whatever's trendy without much though to what's available, the thought of it always made sense to me.

When I shot High power, David and his whole family were the ones to beat. David quietly switched to the 7/08 when all the rest of us used the 308. with the close appearance of the 7/08 to the 308
no one noticed for several years(It was legal but everyone was convinced that the 308 was the ticket.

After his success with the 7/08 he built his own match rifle and it was a 6.5 for better ballistics and less recoil as mentioned. Lots of people still did not notice the change from 7/08 to the 6.5.

I am a big fan of the 6.5 for all of the reason mentioned but for hunting, the 7/08 will out perform the 6.5s in similar sized cases (308). the 6.5s with bigger cases are a different story and cannot be compared to the 308 based 7/08 cartridge just like the larger 7 mm cases should not be compared to the 7/08.

Recoil is relative to the weight of a rifle, so a 7/08 that weighs 1 pound more than a 6.5 (260 rem)
will be about the same as long as the bullets of the 6.5 are lighter.(With the same ballistic coefficient)

The point is, there are lots of good choices for hunting and target shooting and the 7/08 is one of them. In fact, it is one of my favorite white tail cartridges in both rifle and pistol.

J E CUSTOM

 

[pondskipper]

Well that's very good to know, I did manage to find this on YouTube, guy makes some very valid points and I thought I would share it with others one here. Forgive the title of title of the video lol [ame]http://youtu.be/FtlwoNCNnFA[/ame]

 

[J E Custom]

Well that's very good to know, I did manage to find this on YouTube, guy makes some very valid points and I thought I would share it with others one here. Forgive the title of title of the video lol http://youtu.be/FtlwoNCNnFA

That's a very good comparison. I have never seen cartridges compared this way and it was very interesting. Some will not agree but at least the information is there for them to see.

I always knew that the 7/08 was a performer for some reason and know I understand why.

I would not mind having his chart for reference .

J E CUSTOM

 

[gohring3006]

Well that's very good to know, I did manage to find this on YouTube, guy makes some very valid points and I thought I would share it with others one here. Forgive the title of title of the video lol http://youtu.be/FtlwoNCNnFA

I have many of TRex's videos. He is knowledgeable in long range shooting. Maybe Military training....

 

[pondskipper]

Did you notice the retained energy between it and the 300 Remington ultra mag at 1500 meters? Crazy that the two have the same max supersonic range, almost identical retained energy at that range and I'm absolutely positive that the 7mm08 will outlast the 300 rum 2:1 for barrel life, I would assume it would be fairly safe to say when you look at bore to powder capacity that the 7/08 should last at least 4000 rounds before its a tomato stake, you are only talking about a bore diameter reduction of .024" total from 308 which should be fairly negligible as far as barrel degradation is concerned between the 308 and 7mm08, given that the bullets are longer and somewhat thinner will hamper case capacity when loaded to mag length which should (in theory) reduce wear even more, so I'm willing to bet a 162gr amax with 38-39 grains of varget or a healthy dose of h4350 or even rl17 in lapua brass with cci br2 primer should be a hell of a combo.

 

[gohring3006]

Did you notice the retained energy between it and the 300 Remington ultra mag at 1500 meters? Crazy that the two have the same max supersonic range, almost identical retained energy at that range and I'm absolutely positive that the 7mm08 will outlast the 300 rum 2:1 for barrel life, I would assume it would be fairly safe to say when you look at bore to powder capacity that the 7/08 should last at least 4000 rounds before its a tomato stake, you are only talking about a bore diameter reduction of .024" total from 308 which should be fairly negligible as far as barrel degradation is concerned between the 308 and 7mm08, given that the bullets are longer and somewhat thinner will hamper case capacity when loaded to mag length which should (in theory) reduce wear even more, so I'm willing to bet a 162gr amax with 38-39 grains of varget or a healthy dose of h4350 or even rl17 in lapua brass with cci br2 primer should be a hell of a combo.

The 7-08 will be better in terms of barrel life. Looking at that chart for ballistic comparison is kinda unbalanced. Using a bullet with a BC of .480-.500 in a RUM is not doing it any good. More realistic bullet would be the 208 Amax or 215 Berger hybrid. Or even a 230 Berger.

 

[gohring3006]

After more thought, I think he was comparing off the shelf factory ammo.

 

[pondskipper]

This much is true, I wonder how old that video is. Never the less, adding a heavier bullet to the 300rum will further increase its recoil and barrel erosion though the range is increased as well. The main point to me sharing that wasn't nesecarily to prove that it was superior to anything on that list, they all have their place, it was simply to show its capability against others, including magnums, and I can't help but think it would give the best bang for your buck (no pun intended) good barrel life, great ballistics in comparison to a great deal of cartridges out there, and enough retained energy to kill whitetail at around 1000 yards, I think 800ftlbs or better is recommended, of course the whitetail in my area usually don't get much larger than 150lbs. I still don't understand why you don't see people using them more, both competitively, law enforcement, and military. You would think the military especially would have taken notice given the fact that all their bolt action rifles would readily accept it with a barrel swap, they wouldn't loose much in the way of barrel life if any, and their range would be increased to that of some magnum offerings without an increase in recoil to the shooter, or weight of their system, or decrease in ammo capacity.

 

[gohring3006]

Heavier bullets with slower powders will increase barrel life for the RUM. But you are right about the 7-08. Its a good little round. I dont want to take any away from it. For deer it is perfect. As for the military, they test numerous rounds. And I think they would reject the 7-08 because of barrel life. Recoil would be lighter compared to a unbraked rum. I have been considering a 7-08 but I can't find a factory rifle with enough twist to reliably stabilize the 162 Amax. Although some will stabilize the 168 Berger. If you run 230's in the RUM you are unleashing a animal that the little 7 should run from.