7mm STW accubond issue??

[James Kiser]

I have had this issue 2 times in the past 2 seasons. Last year i shot a 120lb doe at 150yds. Put a perfect shot on her through both lungs and the heart. There was little to no blood and the only reason i found it was because there was a huge patch of hair where i shot her and finally after looking for a while we finally found a few drops of blood. When we finally found the deer she had ran 100-150yds. The exit wound was about 2.5-3inches around and the hole was plugged up by her lung.
Now lastnight i shot 2 deer one dropped and was dead before she hit the ground while the other ran off. Im no complaining about them running off i know thatll happen. But this seems like another issue of the bullet itself not expanding. This doe lastnight did the same thing little blood but it was frothy white blood. When we finally found her she had dropped her lung out of her body.
Do i need to aim in a different spot on the deer or is this a common issue with accubonds? I had the same thing happen to me when i used winchester ballistic tips, they would go in and not expand and blow out the other side. Lost alot of deer with those.
What do yall think?
Thanks

 

[Pdvdh]

If your getting 2" exit holes, I think the bullet is performing fine. Lung shot deer can run 100 - 150 yards when their lungs have been destroyed. If you want them to drop on the spot, move the bullet forward into the front shoulders. You'll ruin a lot of front shoulder meat, but the deer will likely drop at the shot. I've seen bullets fail to expand on three separate large game animals, and the bullet exit hole was essentially the same diameter as the bullet entrance hole. Sometimes non-expanded bullets will tumble, but if these three tumbled, they happened to exit either point or butt forward. Because the exit holes were no larger in diameter than the entrance holes thru the hides.

I prefer to shoot thru the ribs/broadside, to avoid the meat damage associated with placing the bullet into the front shoulder meat. It doesn't concern me if they run 100yds before they drop.

I shot a black bear once, positioned broadside. The bullet struck low on the rib cage, just behind the front legs. Was shooting a .338 Win Mag, 250 grain Nosler Partition from a distance of about 90yds. The bear jumped and quivered at the shot and then took off like a quarter horse. Ran about 125yds and piled up. I heard him collapse but couldn't see him the last half of his death sprint. When I field dressed this mid-sized black bear, I found no trace of the heart remaining inside of the chest cavity. And I split the sternum completely apart investigating the heart lung cavity forward of the diaphragm. There was a significant exit hole coming out the far side of the ribs. The heart was gone, evidently sucked on out the far side of the rib cage along with the bullet. So this bear ran 125yds without any heart to pump blood/oxygen to its brain or muscles. Very little bullet damaged meat.

 

[Derek M.]

Not sure what to tell you other than the Accubond is the ONLY bullet I've used where I've lost a deer, it is the ONLY bullet I've ever used that I've recovered several times, and I don't get it. For deer, try aiming at the shoulder and break it.

 

[WapitiBob]

Nothing wrong with a bullet leaving that's an exit hole 10x the bullet dia. The problem is shooting them thru the rib cage. Nothing there to hit that will cause them to DRT. It's certainly a deadly shot but from what I see, to drop them in their tracks something along the lines of the high shoulder/spine shot is needed. That shot has it's own concerns ie; do you have enough bullet to stay together to get thru the spine after going thru the scapula.
They'll run with no heart/lungs till their brain uses up the oxygen and they'll go 100 yards in a matter of a few seconds.

 

[James Kiser]

Im not complaining about how far they run. I was just wanting to make sure that they were expanding properly. I use the accubonds for closer range and will use the bergers for further down range. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[RT2506]

I am not making this statement to start a fight all I am doing is relating my VAST EXPERIENCE from killing hundreds of white tail deer. I did control work for 15 years where 100 deer a year had to be taken off a big farm in NC. I have killed deer with about everything from a arrow through a 45-70. There is such a thing as too much gun. It has been my experience that especially with the 7mm calibers that when you push many of the 7mm bullets really fast, 3000 fps and faster, and shoot an average 100 to 150 pound deer inside 200 yards even with a shoulder shot that does not traumatize the spine deer will run a ways. My theory is the bullet expands too fast, like on contact, and the jacket folds back tight against the base of the bullet and punches through. It does not make a long large bullet path but almost a caliber size path. You can take that same bullet and slow it down below 3000 fps or shoot deer at longer ranges where it has slowed down and it will bang flop a deer. I used to tell people that I would not use my 7mm mag or STW to shoot a deer under 300 yards because I could not carry enough flashlight batteries to trail it up with. I did most of my deer shooting in the evenings a couple hours before dark. I did not have this problem with 6.5 calibers or 30 cal. Weird ain't it. A 264 Win mag with a 27 3/4" barrel has replaced my 7 mag and 7 STW. It kills bang flop most any shot from short to loooooooooooooooog range. 130 Accubonds 3350 fps.

 

[James Kiser]

I am not making this statement to start a fight all I am doing is relating my VAST EXPERIENCE from killing hundreds of white tail deer. I did control work for 15 years where 100 deer a year had to be taken off a big farm in NC. I have killed deer with about everything from a arrow through a 45-70. There is such a thing as too much gun. It has been my experience that especially with the 7mm calibers that when you push many of the 7mm bullets really fast, 3000 fps and faster, and shoot an average 100 to 150 pound deer inside 200 yards even with a shoulder shot that does not traumatize the spine deer will run a ways. My theory is the bullet expands too fast, like on contact, and the jacket folds back tight against the base of the bullet and punches through. It does not make a long large bullet path but almost a caliber size path. You can take that same bullet and slow it down below 3000 fps or shoot deer at longer ranges where it has slowed down and it will bang flop a deer. I used to tell people that I would not use my 7mm mag or STW to shoot a deer under 300 yards because I could not carry enough flashlight batteries to trail it up with. I did most of my deer shooting in the evenings a couple hours before dark. I did not have this problem with 6.5 calibers or 30 cal. Weird ain't it. A 264 Win mag with a 27 3/4" barrel has replaced my 7 mag and 7 STW. It kills bang flop most any shot from short to loooooooooooooooog range. 130 Accubonds 3350 fps.

I agree with this totally. I may reload some heavier bullets and see if that helps more. I may try something in the 200-220gr range. Another guy in my club has a custom Gradous STW like mine and he is shooting 168gr bergers and hasnt had a problem. I like the bergers but ive heard that they dont do well at closer range. Plus my STW groups the accubonds the best. Ill play around with different ammo and see what gets the best expansion with this gun.

 

[Derek M.]

I killed around 10 deer/year in Alabama, about 2-3 in Missouri, and a few other states with a 7RemMag. Did this since the 80s. Most shots were under 100 yards. I've never had a problem and the deer died just like being shot with any of my other rifles. Nothing mysterious about the 7mm bullets in my experience.

 

[James Kiser]

I killed around 10 deer/year in Alabama, about 2-3 in Missouri, and a few other states with a 7RemMag. Did this since the 80s. Most shots were under 100 yards. I've never had a problem and the deer died just like being shot with any of my other rifles. Nothing mysterious about the 7mm bullets in my experience.

only bullets ive ever had an issue with were winchester silver ballistic tips. I had 3 never fire that were brand new off the shelf in my 300wm. I went to another store thinking it could be a problem there. I had 1 out of the 20 not fire. when i shot a deer with them they would got in and come out leaving a pencil size hole. Alot of guys swear by them, i sure dont. I tried another box from midwayusa in 2012 before i sold my 300wm. Just for the heck of it i wanted to try em again. Out of the 20 i have 3 misfires again. I tired to fire them again and still nothing. The first time i had it happen in 2010 i took my fire to my gunsmith to make sure it wasnt the pin. He said it was hitting where it should be hitting. So i said the hell with the winchesters.

 

[Pdvdh]

Nothing mysterious about the 7mm bullets in my experience.

Perhaps Jack O'Connor is responsible for the myth that the .284 caliber is somehow vexed toward failure to kill, compared to .277 or .264 caliber bullets. We're talking .007 and .020 inch differences in diameter. I've read additional posts on this Forum where members swear against the .284 caliber, comparing them to dart guns. I haven't observed any lack of lethality with the .284 caliber cartridges, but it doesn't mean some combination of cartridge and bullet may have resulted in some poor experiences.

Now, they don't kill big bear with the authority of the .338 magnums. But the .284 bullets I've fired dispatched of deer, caribou, sheep, and black bear sized game just fine for me.

 

[varmintH8R]

If your getting 2" exit holes, I think the bullet is performing fine.

I would agree - if you are consistently pushing lungs out of the exit, the bullet is doing its job. I shot a doe this fall, 168 Berger Classic Hunter, exploded her heart, and she still ran about 110yds.

I've never completely removed a heart like Phorwath did on his bear but that is one hell of a story! Amazing how far animal instinct will carry a dead-critter that doesn't know it yet.

Phorwath - think the "issue" will disappear from the thread title?