7mm RUM vs. 300 RUM and (PICS)....

[CanadianLefty]

Hi all,

I have been debating this with a buddy of mine- which rifle-cartridge would be best for long range (max. 600 yards)deer, sheep and pronghorn.

It would have to be a hunting weight rifle of no more than 9.75 pounds (rifle, scope, bases, sling, ammo). Sub-MOA accuracy, a given. Max. 28.5" barrel and be SS Synthetic.

It would have to be the least recoiling of either 300RUM or variants (30-378 Wea.,Tomahawk, wolf, warbird, etc.) or 7mm RUM or variants (dakota, 7.21 Firebird etc.). Though recoil was agreed would not be an issue, it was agred that the least recoiling should prove most accurate.

Can be a realistic, proven wildcat, if logical or a plain jain 300 or 7mm commercial cartridge.

It would have to shoot hunting weight bullets of 140-168gr (7mm) or 180-200r. (.300) with high B.C. for bullet weight- mainly to buck wind and not to compensate for range estimation.However, it would have to have flatest possible trajectory (time of flight) out to 600 yards.

Someone on another forum mentioned a 7mm\338RUM because it is slightly shorter than the 7mm or 300 RUM, thus allowing longer bullets to be chambered in the magazine. Pics from other site below:

What would you pick? Further, would there be a noticeable accuracy difference if said rifle is built using a Model 70 action vs a 700?

[ 08-17-2004: Message edited by: CanadianLefty ]

 

[danacobb]

Thats one flat shooting setup (wow). Seems like it'd be quite the barrel burner. I would thing that any one the 7mm mags would be more than enough to do what you are talking about....the RUM being the flatest of the commercialy available cartridges.

But if you want less recoil, a 7mm WSM with a 160 grn Accubond (BC of ~.512 I think) would be an excellent choice. At 600 yards you would have enough energy to drop an elk still (1450 ft. lbs. with a MV of 3050 with a 24 in barrel).

Also easy to get in a carry weight rifle, get factory ammo if needed. I don't know if you'd be able to keep the gun that light witha barrel that long after scoped, etc...

Good luck with you choice,
Cobber

 

[orwapitihunter]

Without elk on the menu and a max of 600yrds I don't see any need for 30 cal unless it tickles your fancy. With your flattest trajectory and recoil requirements you have pretty much answered your own question. Now for the but...
I'm with Cobber, you don't really need it. A 280AI, 7Mag, 7WSM, would all do the trick. If it was me I would go 7 Rem Mag or 7STW, a target turret or mil-dot scope and look at 160 and heavier bullets.

 

[lead foot]

For deer-ish critter size you don't need the recoil that goes with pushing .30 caliber bullets to speeds where they'll expand at 600 yards.

I'd suggest looking at .25 to 7mm cartridges. They're going to kick a lot less and be easier to shoot precisely at longer range and still deliver plenty of punch to kill deer. To begin with, ignore the cartridge, pick candidate bullets, look at the ballistic tables, and see how fast you have to launch each so they arrive at 600 yards with enough velocity to expand, _then_ go back to the data sections and see what cartrides are needed to achieve those velocities.

It's sort of difficult to know how much velocity is needed to assure expansion. That may take some bullet testing. I semi-arbitrarily say the bullet has to retain 2200 fps at impact because I ran into problems some years ago with bullets failing to expand intermittently below that line. Not all bullets are equal in that sense, but you have to make some assumptions to get started and that's one I choose to make.

Each one of us has a different threshhold where the additional recoil that goes with greater mechanical range decreases our effective range. For me, in a 9.5# rifle, 7mm STW with 160 grain bullets is just about my limit, if it kicks more than that I have to adjust my hold on the gun in ways that reduce my range.

I would look really hard at the .264 Win Mag and 7mm STW for your buddy's use.

 

[jhilsen]

C L-

Given the parameters in your post, I'd vote for the 7mm RUM (factory dies, no fire forming, etc). Out to 600, the lighter bullets are pretty much equal to the heavy bullets in bucking wind/trajectory due to their higher initial velocity overcoming the the heavier bullet's higher BC. You should be able to get a 140 Accubond out at 3600+ with the 28" barrel. It'll be plenty at 600 for the game mentioned, and recoil a bunch less than with the heavier bullets. Magazine length won't be a problem with the 140 (you could use a Wyatt magazine if you want to go with the heavy bullets and not have to go the 7mm/338 RUM for magazine length). For the flattest trajectory to 600 with reasonable recoil in a 9.75 lb RUM, the 7mm with a 140 would be a top contender. It would be just as good with the heavier bullets, but would recoil more. My 2 cents.

Jim

 

[bgouin]

Re: 7 RUM vs. 300 RUM

I recently used my new Sendero II in 7 mm RUM for Pronghorn with a 140 g. Corlokt Ultra factory load. I took a nice Pronghorn at 500 yards. I am new at long range hunting and did not compensate for the (strong) wind. I anchored the animal with the first shot, but had to sneak up for a finisher. I am confident that 5 moa of windage compensation would have required only one bullet. I am going to try reloading 168 g. Bergers at 3100-3180 fps. and pay more attention to windage adjustment. The scope is a Lightforce 3.5-15x50. The rifle/scope/cartridge combination weighs 10.5 lbs., so recoil is not a problem. My 100 lbs. wife shoots it better than I do. It works well at 500 yards and should have no issues at 600 yards. My best group with the above combination is three rounds into 1.6" group at 300 yrds. This shooter needs to work on adjusting for the windy conditions in easten Montana.

 

[davewilson]

welcome aboard, it's a great place to hang out. don't be afraid to try the 180 bergers, they might be a better long range bullet than the 168. is your scope a Nightforce or a Lightforce? never heard of a Lightforce but don't claim to be that knowledgeable on scopes.

 

[sambo3006]

I definitely agree with the other guys that a 30 cal is not necessary for deer size critters. The 7mm RUM would be my pick. I have one that shoots the 150 gr BT like a dream at 3375 fps. It is off getting a brake right now but I picked up some 162 gr Hornady A-max bullets to play with when it gets back. This bullet has gotten good reviews here as a long range deer killer and it has a pretty good BC at a listed .625. I would think that 3250 fps would not be a problem out of my 26" tube. If you went with a 28 or 30" tube, you could probably improve significantly on that.
I know where you are coming from on the fast light bullet vs slower high BC heavy bullet. Since you are limiting your range to 600 yds, I would think either approach would work well. A ballistic reticle should work great for holdover and you could either hold off or click for windage. Anything under 400 yds should be a point and shoot if you sight in at 300 yds.

 

[HRstretch]

I was shooting a 300 RUM and 7MM STW last weekend at the range. The 300 RUM was a sporter barrel and the 7MM STW was a heavy varmint barrel. That 300 RUM kicked the **** out of me and the 7MM STW I could have shot all day and have before.

I am shooting 140 grn Accubonds and 150grn Sierra HPBT and I would and will shoot them out to 600 yards and farther. Just my 2 cents though.

 

[goodgrouper]

Not that the 300 Ultra is particularly nice on throats, but it is a hell of a better choice than the 7 ultra unless your father in law owns a barrel company. THe 7 ultra holds the record for the most overbore chambering of all time. Just about the time you figure out a load, run a drop test, and go hunt your first season, you will be buying a new barrel. Life's too short to have guns with shorter life!

 

[linksmechanic]

Dave: we have alot in common we should talk.

GG: Who cares if the 7rum burns barrels. It's a hunting rifle. Practice with a .308 and use the 7 for hunting only. I can't imagine somebody not getting 800 rounds out of a 7rum with out pushing it too hard which you don't need to. Most of the wildcats that people shoot on here burn barrels.

 

[NYLES]

Dave,
Nightforce is a Lightforce company. Same company.

Dont need either one on deer at 600! My next project very simular requirments going with one of the WSM's likely a 270WSM. On this issue I think scope choice is much more important! These guys got me behind a NF with a R2 recticle......WOW! I need about 3-4 more! FACT IS there are alot of cals out there that can handle deer at 600, I found out real quick 600 is now a chipshot with my first NF, no holdover put it behind the right hashmark and squeeze! Things go ding and flop after that!

For me Id take the 300rum if thats our only two choices...

 

[yellowdog]

Info for thought: 7MM RUM; Drop in inches at 300 yards based on a 200-yard zero. Keep in mind these are factory rounds; Energy in ft.-lbs 2215, Drop 2.7", Recoil 28.3. does'nt get much flatter than that from factory loads. I've got my own home remedies that do better than that. Yes this is a finicky round to load, but when you find the right ingredients it's nothing short of awsome. As far as being overbore, yes it is, it is suppose to be, as is the 300 RUM. Lazzeroni's 7.21 Firebird is more overbore than the Remington 7MM RUM cartridge, and is the only one that exceeds it in performance as far as fps. As far as accuracy, I get 1/2" MOA out of my factory rifle with my hand loads. one more thing fellas, you can get well over 1000 rounds out of this cartridge before you see spred in groups. 1000 rounds may not sound like much, but for an Ultra Mag it is, and It's more of a hunting caliber anyway.

 

[lerch]

GG

While both the 7RUM and 300RUM and barrel eating machines you can definantly work up a good load and be able to practice with the gun without roasting the throat

If you take care of the gun, clean it well and dont let it get real hot I would believe you should get at or over 1000rnds of bbl life out of it. My 270AM hand 800rnds down it when i took the bbl off and it is still in pretty dang good shape. the throat shows modest heat cracking but not really all that much

As for which one i would pick, i would lean on the 7mm just cause of the higher BC bullet (160AB and 200gr wildcat)

steve