7mm Remington Mag OR 7mm LRM?

[NoTasker]

I'm in the process of ordering a custom rifle and the question of 7mm RM versus 7mm LRM came up. I already have a smaller caliber and also a .30 caliber rifle. I've decided I like the ballistics of the 7mm cartridge. This will be used for both target shooting (steel) as well as hunting (deer, elk). Is there any difference that would sway me one way or the other? Is there much difference in the recoil? What am I missing?

For the 7mm Remington Mag he was my thinking:

Ammo is plentiful and easy to find
168gr seems to be the largest (with the best ballistics)


For the 7mm LRM:

Ammo would need to be handloaded and/or ordered via a custom shop
A bit more powder capacity
More downrange velocity due to powder.

I'd love to hear feedback and thoughts from the members about which way they would go with this dilemma.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Well, it depends on a lot of things...

Do you want to easily be able to find brass? Do you like being able to buy a set of dies from any and everywhere at the drop of a hat? Do you like being able to find factory ammo as a source for brass, if brass becomes scarce? Do you want to be able to find tons of established load data? If so, the 7mm RemMag will be perfect.

Also, the 7mmRM can shoot the 180's just fine. I prefer the 168's because whitetails don't require a huge massive bullet to take down, and the 168 VLD gives me all the knockdown and penetration I need. It's also a very flat shooting bullet because of the added speed, thanks to the lighter weight when compared the 180. I do shoot 180's, but only in my heavier, larger 7mm calibers.

Nothing at all wrong with the 7mmLRM, but if you want a rifle that you will constantly be able to load for, and be able to find brass for, or find factory loaded ammo for, the 7mmRM would be a much better option, IMO.

 

[brentc]

I'm inclined to say 7 REM because I have one and am impressed every time I send a Berger 180 down range. I have a 28" #6 Pac Nor on mine and I'm easily putting 180 hybrids down range at 3050 fps with accuracy in the .2s.

Whatever you get, make sure you get enough barrel to maximize your long range performance. I've heard of guys putting 24" barrels on 7 LRMs and it makes me laugh when they aren't getting the velocity they expected.

 

[Jerry M]

For a main hunting rifle, I like factory available. Loose your ammo in east BF and you are are out of luck. 7 mm RM is likely to be available in the nearest town or general store.

good luck

Jerry

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I'm in the process of ordering a custom rifle and the question of 7mm RM versus 7mm LRM came up. I already have a smaller caliber and also a .30 caliber rifle. I've decided I like the ballistics of the 7mm cartridge. This will be used for both target shooting (steel) as well as hunting (deer, elk). Is there any difference that would sway me one way or the other? Is there much difference in the recoil? What am I missing?

For the 7mm Remington Mag he was my thinking:

Ammo is plentiful and easy to find
168gr seems to be the largest (with the best ballistics)


For the 7mm LRM:

Ammo would need to be handloaded and/or ordered via a custom shop
A bit more powder capacity
More downrange velocity due to powder.

I'd love to hear feedback and thoughts from the members about which way they would go with this dilemma.

The answer to your question lies with YOUR priorities. The 7 LRM is a better LR round period. If you are going to do any amount of serious shooting, you are going to need to reload for a number of reasons.

You also mentioned you have a 30 cal but are going with the 7mm for better ballisitics. You are mis-informed on that. The 30 cal has bullets with better BC's than than the 7mm's. The 300 Dakota (which is about the same capacity as the 7 LRM) will out perform the 7 LRM and have better barrel life.

If you want to shoot a 7mm because it's a 7mm that's fine. But it does not have better ballisitics than a .30

I started with 7 mags and migrated to larger .30's The 300 WSM and 300 RUM.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I'm not saying either caliber is better. But I am curious to know how is the 7LRM a better LR round, when the ballistics are pretty spot-on with a 7mmRM, shooting a Berger 180? The chart shows the 7 Dakota (which you said was similar to 7LRM) pushes a 168 at 3,200....I can push them that fast out of my 26" 7RM, and easily out of a 28" 7RM. I'm already at 3,115 and have no pressure signs at all in a 26" barrel.

The 7mm vs .30 debate could rage-on... However, the fact is, they are both pretty equal. The 7mm will be lighter, flatter, and faster. But the heavier .30 cal bullets will retain more energy, but are slower out of the chute (when you compare similar case size and similar weight-for-caliber bullets).

I think when it comes down to personal preference with the 7mm and .30 cal.

This independent test article sure seems to show the 7mm Dakota and .300 Dakota as being about on par with what a 7mmRM and .300 WinMag can average velocity-wise with comparable bullets. I would just assume buy a 7mmRM or .300WM that I can find brass and ammo for on every corner.

Dakota proprietary cartridges

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I'm not saying either caliber is better. But I am curious to know how is the 7LRM a better LR round, when the ballistics are pretty spot-on with a 7mmRM, shooting a Berger 180? The chart shows the 7 Dakota (which you said was similar to 7LRM) pushes a 168 at 3,200....I can push them that fast out of my 26" 7RM, and easily out of a 28" 7RM. I'm already at 3,115 and have no pressure signs at all in a 26" barrel.

The 7mm vs .30 debate could rage-on... However, the fact is, they are both pretty equal. The 7mm will be lighter, flatter, and faster. But the heavier .30 cal bullets will retain more energy, but are slower out of the chute (when you compare similar case size and similar weight-for-caliber bullets).

I think when it comes down to personal preference with the 7mm and .30 cal.

This independent test article sure seems to show the 7mm Dakota and .300 Dakota as being about on par with what a 7mmRM and .300 WinMag can average velocity-wise with comparable bullets. I would just assume buy a 7mmRM or .300WM that I can find brass and ammo for on every corner.

Dakota proprietary cartridges

More case capacity = more velocity. You like AI's right? Why do you like AI's? One reason is you get better performance. You get better performance because you get more case capacity. That is the basic idea behind AI's. Blow out the case and get more capacity. There is no replacement for displacement.

OK, I went to Ammoguide to see what the capacities were for the 7 RM, 7 LRM, 7 Dakota and 300 Dakota. In order... 80.8, 84.8, 90.7 and 94.8. Roughly 5 gr increase up the line. I thought the LRM was a little closer to the 7 Dakota and farther over the RM. It is right between the 2. Bottom line is you are going to see a little better performance with the LRM over the RM, and the Dakota will perform a little better than the LRM. I'll guess about 50 fps or so each step up.

The article you linked was not a test. it was a general write up on the Dakota cartridges. The velocity charts come from the Dakota web site are based on 24" barrels. I Have loaded for the 7 RM and the Dakota chart shows 3200 for a 160 where I was getting 3000 fps with 160's out of a 24" until I tried Retumbo and and RL17. Comparing your results to the Dakota chart is apples to oranges. Different barrel lengths and powders. Also, the hybrid bullets have shorter bearing surface's than the standard 160's which might allow the 168's higher velocities.

Bottom line, more capacity = more/better performance.

As far as comparison with the 30 cal's, i.e. 300 Dakota, you're going to get better performance out of the 300 Dakota than any of the mentioned 7's... period. If you take the same case and neck it up you will get more efficiency. You will be able to push the same weight bullet faster and a heavier bullet at the same3 velocity. There is no debating that. I can pretty much guarantee you that you will be able to push a 215 hybrid out of the 300 Dakota faster than you can push a 180 hybrid out of an LRM or RM and the 215 has a better BC than the 180. That means the 300 Dokota is faster, flatter with more energy at all ranges.

 

[NoTasker]

I was under the impression that the Berger 180 VLD was not able to be used in the 7mm RM and only the 7mm LRM. Is that not correct? MudRunner2005 - you mention the 168gr from the 7mm RM, and also talk about the Berger 180g.

I'd be curious if you can shoot the 180g VLD from both the RM and LRM. I thought the 180g was too long for the RM. If they can be used on the RM, the velocity of the RM would be less, but the ballistic coefficient would be the same. When I get home tonight, I'll have to run the info in a ballistic calculator to see what the downrange performance would be with the 180 for both the RM and LRM.

Regarding my .300 - you just helped school me that the ballistics can be just as good (or better) as the 7mm bullets - it all depends on the bullet selection. Thanks for pointing that out.lightbulb

 

[MontanaRifleman]

The 180 can certainly be shot out of the 7 RM. You just need the right chamber/throat for the most efficient seating and performance.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I've shot lots of 180's out of different 7mm calibers, and have never had a specially throated reamer. Granted, there are some circumstances where it would be an advantage to have a long-throated reamer to seat the bullets deeper into the lands, to utilize more case capacity, but for the most part, you don't need special throated reamers to run 180's in the 7mmRM.

And yes, you can shoot 180's out of a 7mmRM. As long as you have a 1:9 twist, or faster, then you can shoot 180's out of any 7mm caliber you want. If you have a 9.25 or 9.5" twist, you will most likely not be able to stabilize the 180's, so you will have to shoot 168's.

I shoot the 168's in my 7mmRM's, because I have bigger calibers to push the 180's really fast and far. And we don't have anything larger than whitetail deer down here, and most of my shots are inside of 500 yards, so there's really no need for anything bigger than a 7mmRM with 160-168gr bullets for deer hunting down here. If I am LR shooting/hunting (500+ yards), I will pull take one of the big dogs (7mm STW's with Berger 180 Hybrids) and let it feed.

 

[brentc]

The 180 can certainly be shot out of the 7 RM. You just need the right chamber/throat for the most efficient seating and performance.

SAAMI chambers work fine for the 180s. Mine is nothing special. My performance comes from the 28" barrel. A 180 hybrid at 3050 fps from a 7 RM is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Mud and Brent I won't argue what you say.... go back and look at what I said... most EFFICIENT SEATING and PERFORMANCE.

The .284 180 hybrid is nothing to sneeze at... just imagine a 215 or 230 30 cal hybrid... less sneezing going on there

 

[MudRunner2005]

Mud and Brent I won't argue what you say.... go back and look at what I said... most EFFICIENT SEATING and PERFORMANCE.

The .284 180 hybrid is nothing to sneeze at... just imagine a 215 or 230 30 cal hybrid... less sneezing going on there

Actually the 180 and 215 Hybrid BC's are not that far apart...But I know you .30 cal guys will be sweating once the new 7mm 195 EOL comes out, with it's initially tested .794 G1 BC...

7mm 180 Hybrid: G1 - .674

.30 215 Hybrid: G1 - .696

.30 230 Hybrid: G1 - .743

 

[brentc]

Mud and Brent I won't argue what you say.... go back and look at what I said... most EFFICIENT SEATING and PERFORMANCE.

The .284 180 hybrid is nothing to sneeze at... just imagine a 215 or 230 30 cal hybrid... less sneezing going on there

No argument here about the 300s. I'm just stating facts to dispute the claim that 180s don't work well in the 7 RM. I have found that the 180 hybrid is to the 7 RM what the 215 is to the 300 WM. They work extremely well.

I have a dog in every one of these races, so I'm not necessarily a 7 RM guy. I have a lot of favorites, but right now the way my 7 RM is performing, it would be hard to overlook it when I open my safe to pick a hunting rifle.