7mm-08 ultimate youth elk cartridge?

[SpeedGoatShooter37]

I would agree with adding the .308 as a possibility. Kick is light unless all you've been shooting is old hard rubber pads.

From post #68 (SpeedGoatShooter37) "And you can get 150 grain bullets to 2800 in the 7mm-08, and 140s to 2950."

From MidwayUSA for .308 Win we see Federal Power-Shok 150 gr at 2920 and Underwood 144 gr at 2970.

That makes these loads indistinguishable in recoil for rifles of equal weight and fit.

The Creedmoor will yield a tad less recoil because the muzzle velocity is necessarily less for bullets of the same weight (sectional density counts!). Further, one can go all the way down to 85 gr lead-free bullets if one wants low recoil and flat shooting over the first few hundred yards.

No, it doesn't. You don't know the powder charge which factors into rifle recoil. Again, with both the 6.5 CM and the 7mm-08 shooting 140 grains at maximum velocities, the 7mm-08 carries more energy out to 400 yards. It will have a touch more recoil, but the marginal increase in recoil is offset by the increased energy. Sectional density is important, but again the difference between the two loads is small. Frontal diameter is better with the .284 bullet.

85 grains is too light for elk. You can't shoot 140 monos in .264s because they don't make them. You can shoot 140 monos in the 7mm-08, and with their high weight retention, they penetrate better than a cup and core bullet of equal weight, negating the small SD advantage the 6.5 CM had.

 

[LVJ76]

I remembered this thread from a year ago.

On the 7mm-08 for elk you can go hievier with the 154gr Interbond, 160gr Accubond and 162gr SST or even an ELD-X, and still be good out to 550 yds or more depending on load and with way more punch. Can't on a 6.5. Now if you want a load for a kid the 140gr Accubond or 139gr Interbond will work and with less recoil, I would even try the 139gr SST, on all my mulies I get pass throughs even when hitting bone, up close and up to 410 yds, my longest mulie kill.

This cartridge/caliber also produces a wider wound channel, not that the 6.5 isn't enough, but the wider the wound the faster the animal bleeds out.

Yes both kill, but would you rather that animal suffer for 5 seconds or 15.

Bigger is Better.

 

[UplandFreak]

would you rather that animal suffer for 5 seconds or 15.

Sorry man, there is no evidence that shooting a .284 bullet over a .264 bullet decreases the animals suffering. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The 708 offer zero benefit over its 6.5 counter parts. I am fond of the 260, but as said earlier, my son has a 6.5 creedmoor. No animal will ever be able to tell the difference between a 6.5 CM or a 708. One will definitely not suffer any more or less. They make 150 and 160 class bullets for the 6.5's as well.

 

[JMW67]

Sorry man, there is no evidence that shooting a .284 bullet over a .264 bullet decreases the animals suffering. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The 708 offer zero benefit over its 6.5 counter parts. I am fond of the 260, but as said earlier, my son has a 6.5 creedmoor. No animal will ever be able to tell the difference between a 6.5 CM or a 708. One will definitely not suffer any more or less. They make 150 and 160 class bullets for the 6.5's as well.

quick question with all things being equal if there is no difference in shooting an animal with a .264 or a .284 is there a difference between a .284 and a .308 or a .244 and the .264

 

[UplandFreak]

quick question with all things being equal if there is no difference in shooting an animal with a .264 or a .284 is there a difference between a .284 and a .308 or a .244 and the .264

You are only limited by bullet weights. If somebody is going to shoot a 150gr bullet in a 308 I dont think there is any benefit over a 150gr bullet in a 708 (or 260 for that matter). .244 gets a little more complicated because bullet weights are pretty limited and max out around 115gr. But if you are asking me if I would rather shoot a 115gr bullet out of a 6mm CM vs a 115gr bullet out of a 6.5CM or 708 the answer is yes.

If it was all about bullet diameter the 338 federal would have been the king among these little cartridges, yet it is all but dead.
Idaho spring bear hunt I will be taking my bergara premier approach in 6mm creedmoor with 108gr eldms and my buddy will be using his tikka 708 shooting 150gr ballistic tips. My little 6mm will kill those black bears just as quickly as his 708. Its more about bullet choice and shot placement than bullet diameter.

 

[LVJ76]

You are only limited by bullet weights. If somebody is going to shoot a 150gr bullet in a 308 I dont think there is any benefit over a 150gr bullet in a 708 (or 260 for that matter). .244 gets a little more complicated because there aren't many bullet weights are pretty limited and max out around 115gr. But if you are asking me if I would rather shoot a 115gr bullet out of a 6mm CM vs a 115gr bullet out of a 6.5CM or 708 the answer is yes.

If it was all about bullet diameter the 338 federal would have been the king among these little cartridges, yet it is all but dead.

Heavier bullets penetrate more and something you want in an elk is an exit wound just in case.

A wider wound chanel bleeds faster, period.

 

[UplandFreak]

Heavier bullets penetrate more and something you want in an elk is an exit wound just in case.

A wider wound chanel bleeds faster, period.

Sectional density and bullet construction determine penetration. Not bullet weight. I have never cared about passthroughs. I shoot bergers and elds. They penetrate a few inches and blow up - fastest kills I have ever seen. You don't need a blood trail when they take a step or two and fall down dead. We kill a lot of elk and have very few passthroughs and a lot of one shot kills.

 

[UplandFreak]

If we were all shooting FMJ's, bullet diameter would be a lot more important. With all these awesome modern bullets we have to choose from, bullet diameter is a lot less important.

 

[bigngreen]

One thing guys don't think about is as you go up in cal but stay the same in weight your more frontal area on your bullet with less behind it which really defeats the purpose on elk. Larger bullet diameters ONLY win if they have enough weight behind them to keep trucking as the frontal diameter increases. I'll put a 6.5 140 against a .284 140 gr bullet any day of the week when it comes to shooting elk.

 

[LVJ76]

Why a 160gr or 162gr on a 7mm is best for a larger game animal.

 

[bigngreen]

Why a 160gr or 162gr on a 7mm is best for a larger game animal.

Not the same class of recoil for a comparison!

 

[LVJ76]

Not the same class of recoil for a comparison!

Of course not, agreed.

I do like bigger calibers than 6.5 for hunting, as I mentioned they work good I just like bigger.

I started shooting the 7mm-08 with full loads when I was 7 and a 270 when I was 8, I believe when done right kids have no issues with it. My 2 nephes and my godson had no problems with it when started at age 8.

I guess in some things we'll agree and on some not

 

[LVJ76]

If we were all shooting FMJ's, bullet diameter would be a lot more important. With all these awesome modern bullets we have to choose from, bullet diameter is a lot less important.

You have a great point, bullets have come a long way from when I started shooting and hunting.

 

[Coldfinger]

I have 5 kids, the oldest just got her license and got her first deer last fall. This year, Elk is on the menu for her.
Now I'm a gun nut, and I have several great elk rifles but none that a young kid can handle comfortably. Being as she is the first of 5 and I assume all of them will at least try hunting, I figure any money spent on the ideal youth hunting rifle will be a good investment. For our uses I expect this rig to be used primarily on Elk and Mule deer at moderate ranges generally under 200 yards and no more than 300 yards.
My criteria is that the rifle have a short length of pull, light enough for a young kid to carry, enough power to kill elk reliably without heavy recoil (remember it's a light rifle), and a MPBR of near 300 yards just to keep things simple.
It seems to me that a compact 7mm-08 would fit the bill about perfect. Are there better options out there? Any experience with the 7-08 on elk good or bad?


This is a cow I nabbed on a late season extra tag this January.View attachment 126697

I used to take a Remington model 7 in 7-08 for a backup rifle in case something happened to primary rifle. I'd take a 7mm-08 over the 6.5 creedmoor anyday. I loaded 139 grain hornady interlocks and never would have thought twice about using the setup if I needed. It's a light and low recoiling setup.