One of the oldest members of our club just passed away. Joe J. was a marine who fought in the S. Pacific against the japs. He said they were issued AP for the Garands as it would penetrate their bunkers made from logs better.
Just getting my digs in on that M-16. From what I saw on TV of them jamming in Iraq and those long ranges in Afaganistan that's not dink rifle country.
BountyHunter, that is the whole problem. They are looking and studying and researching. Wonderful!!!
Tell that to the people in the field right now pulling triggers and having ineffectual fire. Guns that jam, poor bullet performance past 100yds, no penetration on a solid wood door.
"Call us in a week. We should have a report on whether to consider moving forward for additional trials."
Everyday, a lot of ammo gets fired by shooters who know a bit about the sport. Why not ask them. Set up the parameters and in a month the project would be designed, tested, and field ready. Tax payer cost a big zero$ Just give the design team the credit and a years supply of ammo.
My understanding is that the 6.5 being investigated is in the form of the 6.5-284Win. A great cartridge for LR and match shooting but would a rebatted rim be your first choice for auto fire?
The 260Rem has existed in one form or another for 20years or more. Wildcats based on the 7.62X39 or PPC case would be a drop in upper.
Parts are already off the shelf, at least at most sporting goods stores. Maybe someone should send a general a copy of shotgun news so that they can find out what already exists and what we already know.
Governments are always slow to move when they have the time, but fast to jump on an ill conceived plan when under pressure.
Our men and women deserve better. They deserve the best!!!
The 6.8 is being tested with 110-130 gr bullets for SOF, but they are not real happy at this point. Biggest gripe is that it is too unique. No ammo available "in country" other than SOF channels, ID's you as U.S. SOF unit when you do not want to be ID'd period. Always maintain plausible denial.
SOF is now focusing and proven that heavier match grade 5.56 bullets are more effective. The improved MK 262 Mod 1 version is using a Nosler 77 gr bullet with cannelure, loaded by Black Hills. Started out as a US Army Spec Ops Cmd (USASOC) purchase and now has been carried over to USMC. Gives 2550-2600 fps out of M4s. Proven to be good stoppper.
As they are open tip and "fragment" and not expand, the JAG rulings are that they are legal for land warfare use.
There is a 262 Mod O that uses the 77gr SMK also.
Hornady is using a 75 gr bullet in some experiments with them.
From what I have heard doubt the 6.8 will make it. Plus it would really hack NATO off as we pushed the 5.56 on them in the first place.
The USMC was looking at the 6.5 soley on the basis as it was a heavier bullet that they could load in the 5.56 case, and only have to change barrels. Ie, less cost to convert weapons currently in the system. However, the focus now seems to be on better bullets from known mftr (sierra, Nosler, Hornady) with cannelure that will penetrate and still give knockdown with MOA accuracy.
The 62 gr M855 was originally developed for the M249 SAW 20 years ago to be used against troops relatively close (200m) and wearing body armor in conventional infantry combat. The new bullets are designed for M16 and M4 use only.
Unfortunately the military develops specific bullets for specific weapons in limited roals and then someone decides that they can switch roles and weapons. Normally does not work in the new role or weapon as intended.
****, S1 for once we agree. When I was "down south" we drilled the rcvrs on the El Salvadorian M16s and but screw in to stop them from switching to full auto. Only time a unit we trained got hit hard they ran out of ammo when everyone burned up their issue in a few minutes, then turned into a machete fight.
Best thing military did was go to 3rd burst instead of full auto.
Did someone here call the AR a jam-o-matic?
Savage have you ever owned an AR? I have had zero problems with mine. I would add to S1's request and that the AR 10s are 10Ts with the float tube. Flat tops are more versatile than the A2 and the float tube adds accuracy!
Yeah I am still eyeing an AR10T at a store near me. I just keep spending on other guns.
My Colt 6724 flat top will have to do for now!