6.8 Remington SPC

[Guest]

DPMS , Armalite and Knight all build an AR type rifle that uses the larger cases up and including the 300WSM , I don't have my AR-10 anymopre to compare parts but if anything in interchangable it might be the pins and maybe the trigger , other than that the gun is a good deal bigger in every aspect , the AR-10 , sr-25 and what ever DPMS is calling theirs look like an AR-15 on steroids , probably 50% larger all the way around. It would take a half a role od duct tape to get an AR-15 mag to stay in the well of a SR-25 , the SR-25 and its cousins use a modified M1A magizine.
Not saying that these guns ar bad just big and heavy

 

[Pete Lincoln]

Due to the Geneva Convention/Haague Treaty, summot like that expanding bullets are not sanctioned for ue by Military. Police can use what they wany. I know the Irish police use (among others ) 155 grain Laupa factory ammo with the lapua mega bullet.
The 6.8 SPC is re inventing the intermediate cartridge wheel. If NATO had adopted the intermediate 280 British (7x44) back in 1953 instead of the 7.62x51 then we would have had a capable cartridge that fits all of the requirements. extended range/knock down power over the 5.56 and less weight and bulk than the 308 win. but thats all history..
Pete

[ 04-29-2004: Message edited by: Pete Lincoln ]

 

[speedbump]

FWIW: I hope to participate in a performance test on the 6.8 in the next few weeks.......

 

[Charles A]

Since this is somewere near my alley I'll try to set most straight.

The M16/M4 series of today are durable, reliable, and accurate enough for there purpose. The 5.56 variety is also extremly lethal as long as you understand its limitations. With M855 or M193, impact velicity must be 2700fps or more for reliable fragmentation. What that gives you is about 240m for the 20in barreled M16, and about 140-160m for the 16in M4. Both are well withen almost all engagments.
Now, with the 77gr OTM round its a whole different ballgame. Pretty much if you can see it through a CC0, you can kill it.

On the 6.8 SPC, the group that designed it are very knoweldgeable. Soldiers from 5th Group, the AMU and a couple indipendent terminal ballistic guys are what created this.

Several cases were tested for maximum feeding reliability. All calibers from .24-.30 were tested for the best terminal and external ballistics.
After all was said and done, the one that was the best OVERALL, from CQC distance to 500m, the most reliable without having to recreate the weapon system, and controllable in full-auto fire was the 6.8SPC with the 115gr Hornady OTM.


Hope that helps.

 

[speedbump]

Participated in a T&E session with a 6.8SPC over the weekend. Due to its inclusion in an upcoming article(s), I can't name the rifle or ammo manufacturer.

The rifle upper was very well made with excellent fit & finish, as one would expect. No malfunctions whatsoever, & recoil only slightly more than a 5.56 stuffed with 80s.

However, the commercially loaded ammo left alot to be desired. It was some horribly fouling stuff, gritty in the locking lugs & barrel after shooting. Accuracy was disappointing too.

The good news is that the ammo is only test ammo - they haven't settled on anything specific until they get results in from the field. It's very possible that the optimum powder vs. gas tube 'node' is yet to be determined. Now that we have a supply of brass & some dies are on the way, some sweet handloads should be on the horizon. Time & testing will tell.

 

[Gowge]

A lot of the test ammo is powered by RAMSHOT powder - but the real Remington stuff uses a new proprietary propellent that delivers the goods. From the qualified reports I've read, the load shows terminal impact damage very close to the same as a 7.62, but much more compact and lightweight cartridges. BTW, there's been a load of arguments for years to adopt a .243 or similar cartridge for the M14 or similar platform and go with that. This new round beats the .243 and delivers performance very close to the .260 Remington.

For comparison, here's a 30 Rem - 6.8SPC - and a 5.56mm...

This new round also works at 10% less pressure than a 5.56mm NATO, and uses the same recoil spring & buffer from the M16/M4 platform. ALL THE RIFLES in current use need to be rebuilt - they're wore out. It's very cost effective and good for morale if the Military just installs NEW UPPERS with updated accessory rails & new magazines for the new round instead of just piddling around. ALL the tests that have been done in Afghanistan and IRAQ have given very positive results thus far! Just think of this new round from the M4 as a 9mm (weight) zippin' out there at 2700fps! GREAT for close range where many of the complaints have been noted. Long range, this is one deadly little bullet too!

GOOD LUCK!

 

[Guest]

What bullet is the government planning to stuff this new case with?

And when does anybody expect it to be put into the hands of soldiers for the real test?

 

[Gowge]

It's a little 115gr Spitzer just like you see in the pic. Tests have proven it's VERY EFFECTIVE in both M16 & M4 platforms!

I'm delighted it will work well in the little CZ-527 Mini-Mauser action. Wanta' build a super-featherweight rifle with carbon wrapped barrel for hunting down here in the SOUTH...

There's a ton of information on the WWW about it - just Google "Remington 6.8mm SPC" and you'll get page after page of hits. Remington shows this new ammo on their website under "NEW For 2004" with THREE DIFFERENT bullets/loads, but all 115gr @ 2800fps.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[Lawyer Daggit]

I am wondering if the 6.8 is going to achieve much at all. Ballistically it appears an awful lot like the 7.62 x39 Russian, a round also not noted for stopping power.
If uncle Sam and allies want to increase stopping power it seems to me they need to go for a projectile that will increase terminal effect- ie by tumbling or expansion- (which they can when targeting terrorists as the Geneva Convention does not apply to terrorists) or go to a larger round).
This problem has been around for decades. Churchill stopped using his beloved Broomhandle Mauser in Khartoum when there with a British expedition and started using the issue .455 Webley because it stopped better.
Western troops who are injured usually want to go home. Those with a religious fire in their belly who do not fear death will fight on, and I do not thing an intermediate 6.8 firing a FMJ is going to prove much of a stopper at all, although it may be better than the 5.56.

 

[Imortal Wombat]

If this round is introduced to the armed forces how long before companies will start to chamber rifles for the public in this round, if at all?

 

[james_ogburn]

I thought it was interesting, I bought some of the OEM blem bullets from Midsouth last week. Some of them were described as .270 caliber 130 gr. HPBT bullets. I ordered 300 of them for $4.95/100, and when they came they were the Hornady 115 gr. OTM bullets they made for the 6.8.

Here's a pic of one beside a Hornady SST and a Hornady spire point, both 130 grs.

 

[youngun]

I'm not the first to get excited about new cartridges. Usually not even in line. But this one is a good idea. The US and Brits, and maybe some others, in the 60's did a bunch of tests on how much energy was needed to go through body armour, etc, and came up with a terminal spec. This case will provide that (out to 600m, I think. ?) in the same length action as the 223, and with only minimal mods to the M4 and M16 platform.
115g with a muzzle speed of 2600 or 2650 fps from a 16" bbl is close to what I came up with myself as my ideal (120 @ 2600) so I was pleasantly surprised when this cartridge started being talked about. Mine would've been 6.5mm, with so many good bullets already out there and tested to the limits of imagination, but I won't begrudge them the desire to make something new.
And the casehead is just about exactly in between the 223 and 308. Anyone making 10mm auto cases is already tooled up to make this case.
I'd like to see it take over the 243 as a America's small deer cartridge.

Oh, and what Wayne Holt was saying was, in essence, "if an archer can take an elk, then this thing should do at least as much damage [grin]."

Barret has the M16-style gun available for shipment, I believe, and soon we should see Armalite and others with an upper and mags.
I'm game.

 

[CJ]

5.56 does not rely on expansion for its terminal effectiveness. It fragments violently. If you want to know more, go to {url]Ammo-Oracle.com[/url] for the most complete 5.56 database I have ever seen.

6.8 is more of the same. It has a trajectory that mimics that of 5.56 77gr OTM (Nosler) and 7.62 ball, to approx. 600m. It fragments at short range, and still hits pretty hard if it doesnt fragment.

FWIW, reports are some Federal game wardens (this is how they were identified to me. Possibly Park Rangers of USDA?) have been using 6.8 to cull deer for some time and are extrememly happy with it.

Rifles to be produced by Barrett. Kits from Model 1 Sales. Uppers are available from MSTN.biz and others.

The CZ 527 will be chambered in this round by early next year.

Ammo is 115 OTM, 115 FMJ, or 110 HP.

Ammo is scarce at the moment, all of it from Remington has been purchased by SOCOM and is headed for the Gulf. Cases are available from Remington. Case head is the same as 10mm or .40 Smith. Its based on the .30 Remington.

Barrett signed a multi million dollar deal with American Ammunition to make 6.8 for the public, until Remington can make enought to keep up with demand.

 

[CJ]

Almost forgot:

The AR10 is a heavy and large rifle. It has more power than the 6.8, in almost all of its calibers, but also more recoil and muzzle blast.

The SR25? A nice rifle. Spot me $7k and I'll buy one and tell you how nice