6.5 smk recovered

[jwp475]

I think you have missed the point here.

We all know that SMK's expand at times. We also know that "hunting" bullets dont always expand. However you cannot hide from the fact that hunting bullets will behave with a reasonable degree of predictability most of the time.

No I have not missed the point. Darrel Cassel a pioneer in Long Range hunting has used the SMK's with a high degree of predictability for decades even taken a bull Elk at 2,000 yards with one shot. Shawn Carlock Just took a nice bull Elk this year with a SMK. rimfire, godgrooper, Chris Matthews, Kirby Allen as well as myself have used the SMK's with a very high dergree of success. Also Dave King one of the original 3 that started this web site has taken several hundred Deer with SMK's

The following quote is from Dan Lilja and the rest of the article can be read here;


Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels - Articles: Long Range Shooting and Hunting: Page 1

"Bullets should be selected on the following grounds. They must be accurate at long-range and of high ballistic coefficient. Therefore in making the decision to select a match type bullet over a soft point spitzer or the other way around, I would select the bullet that proved to be the most accurate in my rifle. You must hit them first.

Most of the animals I have seen killed at long-range have died very quickly. I have also seen evidence that some of the match bullets have opened up way out there. My friend and experienced long-range hunter Darryl Cassel and I have discussed this and he reports excellent killing characteristics from the 200 grain Sierra Match King fired from a 30-378 Weatherby. I remember looking at a picture of a big black bear he shot, at about 700 yards with that combination, that showed a tremendous wound cavity. Darryl said he dropped like a sack of potatoes too. I recall a mule deer buck I shot with the 270 Weatherby and 130 grain Ballistic Tip at a muzzle velocity of over 3500 fps. That buck died as quickly as any game animal I've seen hit at any range - immediately.

I've talked to quite a few hunters that have used the 300 grain Sierra .338 bullet at long-range on game like elk, deer and bears. They are reporting very good killing qualities from this bullet. The down-range energy level is tremendous. "

 

[elkaholic]

jwp...bullets are swaged just like most others. the difference is how they are constructed......Rich
p.s. Let's see some pictures of bullets being recovered from a LIVE moose

 

[Michael Eichele]

JWP,

I cannot argue with you about the 300 grain 338 SMK. It has a very good track record. I myself make one exception with the SMK's and I use the 338 300 grain for hunting. In fact I just killed my first goat with it. For one there is a major shortage of 300 grain hunting bullets so that leaves us with the SMK. Not that this is in and of its self enough to merit its use on game but it is a very proven bullet for hunting senarios. This I agree.

You cannot compare every other SMK to the 338 300 grain. The BC of the 300 grain 338 is so freakin high that there is enough retained velocity even at 1K+ to merit some sort of reliable expansion. For every other SMK this is simply NOT the case. I agree with the 300 grain pills and make that exception but other than that you cannot lump ALL SMK's in the same catergory as the 338 300. One size and caliber of SMK does not mean the rest of the SMK's are worthy of hunting period. This is based on too many game animals I have hit and lived longer than they should have due to the pencil thin holes in and out. I for one feel that the game out there is worthy of our respect and it is a major dissrespect to the game to not kill them as quickly and cleanly as possible or at the very least do our best. Anything less is pure dissrespect.

The original thread is about the 6.5 SMK. You cannot compare the 6.5 SMK or any other SMK to the 338 300 grain SMK in this case.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I said that "placemet trumps all else" If you think that is incorrect why don't will explain how anything can trump placement. Hell a 22 rim fire can kill an Elk with a perfectly place shot or a Grizz it has already been done, I;d say that placement trump caliber in that instance. Placemen always trumps all else.

Simple is hard on some folks

You seem to want to be argumentative. I asked you a few questions a while back, like what you meant by "shot placement". Let's apply it to the subect of this thread. So, I am asking you... would you take this shot with the same bullet knowing full well it will not expand? By shot placement, are you saying you are intending to put a shot through the heart of this deer at 1007 yds? Or, are you planning to place the bullet in the general area of the vitals, knowing it will likely pencil through. Please answer the question and dont continue to be vague.

IMO, you have already contradicted yourself in the other thread by saying you would choose the 475 handgun over the more accurate 22-250 for shooting a bear. Why would you not put a 77 gr SMK in the 22-250 and place the shot exactley where you want instead of choosing the hardcast bullet out of the 475?

why don't will explain how anything can trump placement

I have already told you this once so read it again carefully and pay attention... I do not separate shot placement and bullet performance. One does not trump the other... get it??? They are both critical. If I do not feel that I can accurately place the shot but the bullet will perform, I dont make the shot. If I feel that I can make the shot, but the bullet will not perform, I dont make the shot. Do you understand that? Is that *simple* concept *hard* for you to understand?

You are definuitely missing the point or evading trying to be pinned down.

Would you make this shot know that the bullet will pencil through???

 

[jwp475]

No point in debating someone that doesn't realize that shot placement trumps all eles.

Quote from Dam Lilja;

"Bullets should be selected on the following grounds. They must be accurate at long-range and of high ballistic coefficient. Therefore in making the decision to select a match type bullet over a soft point spitzer or the other way around, I would select the bullet that proved to be the most accurate in my rifle. You must hit them first."

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/longrange_shooting/shooting_hunting.htm




Simple is hard on some folks..

 

[MontanaRifleman]

No point in debating someone that doesn't realize that shot placement trumps all eles.

I figured I wouldn't get an answer from you....

 

[liltank]

No point in debating someone that doesn't realize that shot placement trumps all eles.

Quote from Dam Lilja;

"Bullets should be selected on the following grounds. They must be accurate at long-range and of high ballistic coefficient. Therefore in making the decision to select a match type bullet over a soft point spitzer or the other way around, I would select the bullet that proved to be the most accurate in my rifle. You must hit them first."

Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels - Articles: Long Range Shooting and Hunting: Page 1




Simple is hard on some folks..

Man I am enjoy reading this just for the fun of seeing you sit uneasily in your computer chair figuring out what other book knowledge you can find. Why do you have to insult people? "Simple is hard on some folks..." as I quote you.

We were trying to keep it simple and you break out engineering physics articles!! You pull the trigger, the gun goes BANG! and the bullet may or may not perform as it should. Does not get much more simple than that. Choose your ammo and projectiles with care. Choose your shot placement well. Can't make the shot, DON'T SHOOT! Have not practiced to that range, DON'T SHOOT! Have the ability to do all the above, get it on tape so the rest of us can see the action.

Tank

 

[jwp475]

jwp...bullets are swaged just like most others. the difference is how they are constructed......Rich
p.s. Let's see some pictures of bullets being recovered from a LIVE moose

How are they constructed? Cup core bonded, non bonded or what?

 

[jwp475]

300 grain 338 Cal SMK through the noggin at 165 yards

[/QUOTE]

 

[elkaholic]

jwp.....Man! That doggy has a three aspirin headache! To answer the bullet question; I don't usually bond the really long range stuff because I haven't found it to be necessary. I acid core bond the bullets that will be used at higher velocity and on larger game. If I really want things to hold together, I add a sleeve to slow down expansion.....Rich