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Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by jwing, Nov 20, 2011.
any load data would help!
That's a broad question. What rifle? What magazine length. What barrel length? What range? What targets?
Quickload has the 6.5 SAUM in it's database. There are a huge number of practical combinations. You must have had a reason to choose the 6.5 SAUM wildcat over the 264 WM or 260 Rem.
It might help to tell us.
rem 700 la ultra mag action, reamer set up for 140 berger at base od neck. rock creek 28" # 5 1-8 twist hs sporter stock.
61.0 imr 7828 with gm 215m shoots at 3130 just of lands.
Was told to try mrp-2 and h-1000 and imr 7828 was top powders
I'd bet the reason is 200fps over the .264, 500 fps over the .260?
The MRP-2 suggestion is out, this powder was discontinued, unless Montana Etreme imported some you won't find it.
Buy yourself a pound of VV N570 and try that. Retumbo comes to mind also. Find pressure, back off a couple of grains. Those short fat cases love slower powders.
I recommend this for the 6.5 WSM also. And I'd lose the magnum primer, it is not needed.
"I'd bet the reason is 200fps over the .264, 500 fps over the .260?"
3460 fps out of that little case? My 264 will push 140 Bergers 3260 fps with excellent case life out of my 28 inch Broughton. Some of the velocity claims on here are just amazing. I guess if I didn't care much about my case life I could load up some super hot loads and show some amazing velocities also, just have to throw away the cases after one shot because the primers would fall out as they are extracted.
Congratulations apex, you're running 200fps faster than any published load I can find. Which I did look up before I made my post. I worked with a guy who was pushing the 140 bergers out of 264 at 3200fps, he came in on a Monday all scabbed over on his nose and upper lip. A person learns when it hurts! Belted magnum failure. I fail to see what you brought to this thread, other than wanting to pick a fight with me.
jwing had 3 threads out this morning when I was browsing asking for help with load data for the 6.5 saum, and the 6.5wsm. I was trying to help him understand the properties of the short mag cases. And to me that is a slower burning powder with the heavier bullets in a specific caliber. Another guy going by burhead was giving the exact same advise to him as myself.
I have a 7stw, similar to your case, there is no way I could get the performance out of it shooting a 180gr Berger that I could shooting the same out of my 7mm SAUM.
Not trying to pick a fight just tired of all the amazing claims of the short mag crowd. All of the data for the 264 mag is very old. With the new powders available today its not hard to get 3200 fps out of a 264 with a 26 inch barrel. My load is 68.5 grains of Retumbo, WW case, 215M primer and Berger 140 hunting VLD. By the way its the max load recommended by Berger for this bullet. I also got to 3200 fps with H1000 but accuracy was not as good. I have 3 264's and they all can handle this load without any pressure problems. Shot a nice 1.5" group at 300 yards with my Rem 700 CDL SF a couple of months back so it's a fairly accurate load also.
I've been handloading for over 40 years and never had a "belted magnum failure" don't know what that is. Thats another pet peeve, if you know how to set up your dies there is nothing wrong with the belted case. Many accuracy records have been set with belted magnums over the years. People have case head seperation on non belted cases all the time for various reasons and don't blame it on "non belted case failure".
I did shoot with a guy that had a 6.5 WSM built and was getting about 3400 fps out of it with 140 gr and RL 17 but on the second firing if you tapped the case on a table the primer would fall out. Not a practical load if you ask me, but then I'm no expert.
Not trying to be an @ss Milo, just trying to set the record straight on the capability of the 264 Win Mag with todays powders. I did see a post on here the other day about some amazing velocities with a 6.5 saum maybe he'll come on here and set me straight.
Milo I think you're selling your STW short, you should be able to push 180 gr bullets faster than a 7WSM, E-Mail Eric Stecker at Berger for loads for the 7 STW and their 180 gr bullets I think you'll be surprised.
come on boy's
I shoot a 264 win 140 a-max 68.0 h1000 at 3100 shoots1/2 or better killed a chuck at 1300 yard this summer.
also shoot a 7stw on 2nd barrel
old load 140 bal tip 80.0 imr 7828 fed gm 215m 3550 fps shot .200
150 sc 2 magmum powder cant ref charge from right now fed 215m 3400 shoots .2ish
162 a-max retubo fed gm215m shoots .300ish
let get back to the 6.5 saum and 6.5 wsm
shoot the wsm today. windy
shot 3 loads in 6.5 wsm
140vld 62.0 imr 7828 fedgm 215m clean barrel 3000 fps
140 vld 62.0 imr 7828 fed gm210m 3020 fps less pressure
140 vld 64.0 h-1000 fedgm 215 m 3100 fps
6.5 saum is now bedded hope next week can finish breaking in barrel
140 vld 61.0 imr 7828 fed gm215m 3150 fps
all 10' from muzzel ohler 35 cron
burr head told me to try mrp-2 h-1000 seems to be the best in 6.5 wsm have not tryed retumbo, mrp-2 yet.
There is an interesting thread on page 1 of the reloading forum about case seperation, maybe failure was the wrong term to use. I've seen my share of this with belted cases, most not to the extreme of injury. A belted mag is the last case I personally would cowboy up.
Thanks for the info on the Berger data, but the STW is a hunting gun of mine I shoot lighter bullets out of it.
As far as your friend getting 3400fps out of the 6.5wsm with rl-17, and having ruined cases after two firings is what I'm telling jwing not to do. Rl-17 is a fast powder for the short mags.
Remington doesn't even make a gun in a SAUM anymore, it's kept alive by target shooters and wildcatters. So performance is what people are after, yes they get pushed.
Jwing, sorry about hijacking your thread for the rumble! I'm kinda friends with burhead, was shooting with him on sunday so him and I are on the same page.
Where you located? A few of us bought all the MRP-2 from BHSS, sole distributer of Norma in US. Then we cleaned out Powder Valley, so finding a supply of it is going to be tough.
A friend of mine shoots a 6.5wsm with, 130gr Norma GT, fed 210m, 68gr of Mrp-2, he's pushing 3350 with it. Litz published the bullets bc at .574, getting close to the 140 berger, and is quite economical to shoot. The gun rocks! We've talked about switching his load to the 140, and N570, but the cost keeps him from doing so. He just bought my last 400 Norma bullets, that should just about do his barrel in.
One thing burhead didn't mention to you is, we all shoot moly coated bullets, which I'm a firm believer is bringing more velocity.
Oh, and getting 2 custom guns in one month is just not fair.
Try N 570, it is a dual based, high energy powder, the results will be there without pressure.
I'm gone, good luck,
I shoot moly in everything, I have had good luck with it.
I have tryed rl-19 and superforamance and h4831 ssc they all have potental in the low to mid 3000 with 61.0 imr 7828 is the best I hhave tryed yet for vel with 61.0.
going to shoot some more shots finish breaking in barrel and then send it off for nitriding. rock creek said the supported this, that have had good results.
going to run it this 6.5 saum with 140s and work up maybe some 130 sc-2.
was just hoping someone had all ready played with one and asve some time and barrel life.
I will get some n570 I have some n-170
I guess I just don't hang around with the "In" crowd. Short mag cases just don't excite me like they do you guys, and the belted mag case doesn't scare me at all. I don't shoot moly bullets either as i find they cause more problems than they solve IME but then what do I know? Here's a nice little article about just what I'm talking about.
[Belted Magnums aren't redundant?]
I've got a Krieger 264 barrel with 8.5 twist #5 taper sitting here that I'm trying to figure out what to chamber to. I was thinking 260 or 6.5/06 or 6.5x284 since I've got the 264 Win Mag covered pretty well. Convince me that I just can't live without a 6.5 saum cause I just don't see anything really special about the round. Not trying to be a smartass just want to know whats so special since you guys are so fond of the round.
because you don't have one.
I don't know a lot yet only shot it 2 time. three shots at 100 61.0 gr 7828 3150 2 in same hole 1 out .6 othe group about the same.
from what i see loading the 264 with 140 it is more efficent than the 264.
they say better neck?
can tell you for sure 6.5 saum 61.0 imr 7828 3140 6.5 wsm same lot 7828 at 62 gr 3000 fps
you tell me. both rock # 1-8 twist 28" barrels
You want efficiency go 6.5x47 Lapua, here's a load I found off of 6mm br websight.
Powder = Varget
Powder Charge = 38.5gr
Primer = CCI 400
Bullet = Lapua Scenar 139gr,I point them using John Whidden's die)
Seating Depth = 0.460'
COAL = 1.360'
Velocity = 2890fps
Barrel = Krieger 30' in 8 twist
Action = Barnard
Reamer = PT&G Print# 14485,0.159 freebore - no neck turn)
38.5 grains of powder giving almost 2900 fps now thats efficiency!
In all reality do we really care if we put 38 grains of powder in a case or 68 grains, aren't we all just looking for performance, speed with accuracy, and I get both out of my poorly designed, long in the tooth, belted mag cased, 264 Win Mag.
Are your short mags repeaters or single shots? I've heard short mags can be hard feeding from a magazine.
And you still haven't convinced me that I need one yet.
they are both built on 700 ulta mag actions for repeters. started out going to build the 6.5 saum. the smith said he had reamer so took him the stuff. end up finished in a mod 6.5 40deg streached thing! so to save the barrel at 28" bough a 6.5 wsm reamer for that barrel and bought new 6.5 saum reamer, barrel and action. long story short..
working and saving some cash again.lol.
would like a 6.5 06, 260 and 6.5 x 47
I do love the 264 win Killed a chuck this spring 2nd shoot 1100 yard
what is your load in the 264? twist ect.
shoot the 6.5 saum today 4 shot to finish breaking in. windy 3 shots in the 3.s 4 th out still in the .5s 3150.
going to send it off and try the meloniting!
hope it works.