6.5 Grendel for whitetail

[snox801]

Heres the deal. Brass will not show pressure signs until 70k. So reading primers on a case with saami at 52k is pointless. In a bolt gun maybe. But not an ar.

So what your telling me is the guys that shoot 147gr with Rl26 out of a creed is ok but not 3 k with a 97gr out of a grendel.
And I'm not reading just brass, primers are made of different materials and have been used to read pressure in ar for a long time.
And velocity is one way to read pressure not the only one. He ace why Weatherby can gain 200 fps over chambers without the freebore.
I get it you don't wanna believe it can be done. So don't try it but telling everyone who has come to the same speeds with said bullet they are all wrong and not loading correct is also stupid. Almost everyone on ar15 and this sight does not have real pressure testing equipment so we go by what has been done for years and it's proven safe over the long term. So I'm gonna keep doing it.
Hammers require a much faster powder to get those speeds. So yes they create less pressure which allowed faster and more powder
. By your logic of velocity being the measure everyone running hbn bullets to gain speed and add more powder by reducing friction is not actually reducing friction they are juts over pressure which somehow magically hides all signs of pressure they normally look for.

 

[snox801]

Heres the deal. Velocity equals pressure and vice versa. While you might be able to cheat some with the bullet bands and freebore there are limits to this. I am quite familiar with the creedmoor and R26 as well. I have looked at hammer data online and still think it's a stretch when your getting 6.5cm velocities in the grendel. Show me some pressure tested data not just what some guy posts online.

Ok well what about my creedmore that's getting 3200fps with 123 meg hammer and brass is not flowing or primers flat. Is that also way over? That is a bolt gun which we can use pressure signs to trace pressure. The hammers have been able to gain speed over everything else I've tried. So have cutting edge laser. So they have proven to be faster. Just saying before you say it can't be why not try for yourself and see.
Seems many of us have and got thats speed. So again we are either all far less skilled at loading or we all came to the same conclusion on our own and that is a good place to say it's safe.

 

[cajun]

Copied and pasted from the hammer website
"Muzzle velocity should not exceed max load velocity listed for similar weight bullets listed in loading manual. Muzzle velocity is an indication of pressure."

I can guarantee you are over 52k in the grendel. Does that mean your in imminent danger no. The 52k is for bolt thrust due to having a fat case head in an ar platform designed for 223. At some point your bolt will fail. How many rounds it will take who knows. This was a problem in the grendel from day one.

People should understand that reading primers is not an exact science. It's also impossible to feel bolt lift in a semi auto. In a modern bolt action you have a lot more leeway. The people who make these bullets are telling you dont exceed published velocities for similar weight bullets. The problem with all copper bullets has been the long bearing surface needed to achieve weight. This meant they built pressure early. Hammer has reduced the bearing surface by slightly curving it unlike the weatherby design with huge freebore.

I'm not telling you you are stupid so dont put words in my mouth. What I am saying is that you are taking a risk using higher pressure loads in an ar with an aluminum receiver. If you are ok with that, thats on you. What I dont agree with is guys putting data out there for others to use based on "well nothing bad has happened yet". Because basically thats what you have.

 

[cajun]

I'll make one more comment and I'm done. You mentioned R26 in 6.5 creedmoor. When guys started posting their data I was skeptical. They were getting 6.5 284 numbers pretty much with the 140. I ran a pressure test and did not get sticky bolt lift primers were fine. When quickload added R26 we ran the numbers. They were within 10 fps of my chrono and the max load that looked perfectly safe was over saami by about 2k. But it was less than 70k where you start seeing issues with brass. About that time berger put out some data as well.
Now in a modern bolt action with a steel reciever thats vented to handle a case failure it's not as much an issue. All modern firearms are tested with proof loads as well. An AR with an aluminum receiver is different. If the case head goes while the bolt is moving back that aluminum receiver is going to have a bad day. If your lucky it blows out the magwel. But you might not be lucky. This is why I dont like pushing things in the AR. It normally takes a serious over charge,wrong powder or barrel obstruction to destroy a bolt action. Not so in the AR.

 

[snox801]

I'll make one more comment and I'm done. You mentioned R26 in 6.5 creedmoor. When guys started posting their data I was skeptical. They were getting 6.5 284 numbers pretty much with the 140. I ran a pressure test and did not get sticky bolt lift primers were fine. When quickload added R26 we ran the numbers. They were within 10 fps of my chrono and the max load that looked perfectly safe was over saami by about 2k. But it was less than 70k where you start seeing issues with brass. About that time berger put out some data as well.
Now in a modern bolt action with a steel reciever thats vented to handle a case failure it's not as much an issue. All modern firearms are tested with proof loads as well. An AR with an aluminum receiver is different. If the case head goes while the bolt is moving back that aluminum receiver is going to have a bad day. If your lucky it blows out the magwel. But you might not be lucky. This is why I dont like pushing things in the AR. It normally takes a serious over charge,wrong powder or barrel obstruction to destroy a bolt action. Not so in the AR.

That is exactly my point. I stated the hammer hunters only gained a bit. But the absolute hammers are different with the ability to gain 200fps over same weight.
Same with Rl26, the 97gr hammer and Rl10x is similar. It's a combo that shows zero pressure in my ar's I went much higher almost 2 gr higher till I saw pressure but backed off to be safe.
You didn't copy and paste the hammer stuff for the absolute. I think that may be where we are at a disconnect. The 99gr hunters are a much different animal and I indeed us the same charge weight as most do for cup core.
I think you should try a box of them with Rl10x and tell us what you think.
Would be help to see what other come up with that they feel safe.
Not saying g your wrong either but fact is we have no real pressure data so we much use what we know to use.
I did not give out load data unless they want to pm me and I always say to use caution.

 

[snox801]

Cut and paste from them also.

 

[41Magnum]

Congratulations Sir!

 

[Eric H]

I'm thinking of getting a 6.5Grendel upper but until I do I'm sticking with my 6ARC. Does pretty good at 2738FPS with the Hammer 101Gr HH at 100Yds. The season is right around the corner and can't weight. Trigger finger itchy.

 

[snox801]

Based on what exactly? swipe marks, primer flow or strain gauges? Which Hammer bullets are we referring to? all of them or a select few?

I have started playing with the Absolute Hammer in the 6mm ARC. Admittedly I am a bit uncomfortable pushing velocity to the limit with little starting data, especially with the need to go out on a bit of a limb with propellant selection due to little to no data.

That's the hard part about the absolute hammers. You need to not only find a faster than normal powder but also one that doesn't take up to much room in the case. Then no real data so I end up starting really low and slowly working up. But I like to shoot and can do it off the back porch so it's not super bad.

 

[snox801]

I'm thinking of getting a 6.5Grendel upper but until I do I'm sticking with my 6ARC. Does pretty good at 2738FPS with the Hammer 101Gr HH at 100Yds. The season is right around the corner and can't weight. Trigger finger itchy.

So I always said I thought the 6mm turbo or even 6mm grendel was probably the best at round possible. The. Of course after waiting forever and not wanting to spend the big dollars on a custom. I went 6.5, then a year later or so the arc came out. But I'm completely happy with my 6.5 now that I've got the 100gr bully's doing so well. Given me great performance on game out to 400. After that I should be using something more in line with that distance

 

[Mike D Texas]

Weatherbys have huge free bore but also large case capacity. Look at the end of the day we all take responsibility for what we do. I just know a 6.5 grendel is not a 6.5 creedmoor or 260 no matter what bullet you shoot.

I am also running the 97 grain absolute hammer at 2961 in a 20" Grendel AR.

You don't have to believe if you don't want to but I know what I have been able to do. I haven't tried them in my 20" Howa mini yet but I expect at least the same or higher.

 

[bamban]

I am also running the 97 grain absolute hammer at 2961 in a 20" Grendel AR.

You don't have to believe if you don't want to but I know what I have been able to do. I haven't tried them in my 20" Howa mini yet but I expect at least the same or higher.

I like the velocity. How far have you taken TX WT with the 97 AH? I got a 24 inch Grendel gasser that shoots the 120 Lapua real well. might look into the 97 and see how they work with 24 inch barrel.. Could you please PM me your load I can use for reference.

 

[snox801]

I like the velocity. How far have you taken TX WT with the 97 AH? I got a 24 inch Grendel gasser that shoots the 120 Lapua real well. might look into the 97 and see how they work with 24 inch barrel.. Could you please PM me your load I can use for reference.

I have taken Michigan whitetail out to 400 so far with mine which are much bigger body that Texas. And with that speed and the mine FPS for them to operate properly which I have tested is 1800 FPS which gets you to about 450-500 yards.
I will be testing them at lower velocity but think they may open more like a Barnes at that point.

 

[dlgiese]

I have 2 of them, a 13.5" and an 18". I have taken around 10 deer with them. All deer shot through the vitals with the 123 ELDM have died within 40 yards. Some just fell over dead. The 2 deer hit too far back by my young son were never recovered, despite a substantial blood trail that slowly petered out. I limit my shots to under 250 yards with the Grendel due to its low starting velocity.

I've determined it's an excellent deer round for an experienced shooter who can guarantee a good hit to the heart/lungs. It does not leave much room for error, though, due to its low velocity. Wounds are substantial with a silver dollar size exit but the temporary stretch cavity is limited compared to a faster round. I'm heading to the woods with my 18" tonight. Hope this helps!