6.5 Creedmoor vs 7mm-08 AI

[LongWalker]

I live in the Southeast US so I hunt whitetails and wild hogs. I have a custom barreled Savage 6.5 Creedmoor with a 22" barrel running the Berger 140 elite hunter at 2831 with RL-16. Plenty of gun for that obviously but I've got a shot at an Elk hunt this fall and wanted a little more down range energy. Won't be a long range hunt but possibly out to 500 yards.

My questions are, is the 6.5 Creed enough (2166fps and 1460ft-lbf at 500) and would there be any significant gain in terminal performance with the 7-08 AI?

My original thought was rebarreling for 300 WSM, 7 SAUM or 7 Sherman short. The consensus seems to be that the Savage small/standard shank isn't the best option for the short mags.

Appreciate any help as I've about broken my brain on this one.

 

[MudRunner2005]

7mm-08 AI

 

[Idaho Lefty]

Buy a Tikka and go 7mm-08 Ackley,.. very, SWEET !
My son, just shot his T3X, 7mm-08 with, 150 ELD-X's into, SUB 3" at 620 yards !
FYI, the WSM's feed fine, in the Tikka's also ! I love my .270 WSM with 140 grain NAB's flying at, 3,150 FPS and easily,.. SUB MOA !
7 SAUM is another great, Cal. choice, IMO! The 300's have TOO MUCH,..recoil, unless Braked ! PS; I don't like or, need Brakes !

 

[LongWalker]

Thanks for the input so far. I should have mentioned that if I go 7mm-08 AI it would also be a barrel swap on my current creed. My hope for that would be to see how fast I could run the Berger 175 elite hunter.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

The "trick" to killing Elk and Moose, is getting the Bullet, to EXPAND ENOUGH at the "range" you shoot, the animal to deflate the Lungs or rip a piece of Heart, out !
We "do it" with Bows ALL the time ! I'm Hunting Shiras Moose here, in Idaho this year with my Bow ( drew my once in a Lifetime Tag). My son has killed 6 Elk and a Moose with his Bow 35 to 65 Yards with sharp Broadheads. So look at your 6.5, 143's and see how far ( at what range) it will EXPAND down to. Might call,.. Hornady on that.
My guess would be about, 450- 500 yards.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

Thanks for the input so far. I should have mentioned that if I go 7mm-08 AI it would also be a barrel swap on my current creed. My hope for that would be to see how fast I could run the Berger 175 elite hunter.

The 175 grain might be a tad slow and drop like, a Rock ? Watch your Twist rate for anything over 150 - 160 grs in 7-08. My son's Tikka T3X did NOT like, the 162 gr ELD-X's but, the 150's shoot, sub MOA !
My son will be "dialing" his 7-08 150 ELD X ( so drop not too big a factor for him) and at 2,850 FPS we figure, it's probably good to kill an Elk at 750 yds or so. Good luck !

 

[LongWalker]

Great info. They have a 150 Berger classic hunter that I'm sure would work. 185 classic hunter is sub moa out to 800 in my Howa 20"HB as long as the crosswind doesn't get crazy

 

[MudRunner2005]

The 175 grain might be a tad slow and drop like, a Rock ? Watch your Twist rate for anything over 150 - 160 grs in 7-08. My son's Tikka T3X did NOT like, the 162 gr ELD-X's but, the 150's shoot, sub MOA !
My son will be "dialing" his 7-08 150 ELD X ( so drop not too big a factor for him) and at 2,850 FPS we figure, it's probably good to kill an Elk at 750 yds or so. Good luck !

Quite the contrary... It will have a slower MV than if it was shot by something with a larger case capacity, but it's ballistics in the 7mm-08 AI will be exceptional.

I know this because I have been doing something very similar for many many years... I shoot Berger 210's and 215's in my .308 Win, and while it only pushes them around 2,500 FPS MV (24" barrel), the ballistics are not far off of the 6.5 CM or .260 Rem pushing a Berger 140 VLD.

So, don't let the slower MV's fool you, it will retain more velocity and energy down range and on impact with the 175, than a lighter & faster bullet will.

 

[Iclimb]

I'd look hard at a fieldcraft in 7-08 and then if you want have the shoulder re-cut...

 

[Tidus56]

You are limited to a short action? The biggest thing is pick a solid bullet that will penetrate into the elk and still get expansion. Accubonds and the ELD Hornady bullets seem to do well.
@MudRunner2005 What velocity will he get with a 7mm-08 AI with the 175? I am just curious to run the ballistics against the creed.

 

[LongWalker]

You are limited to a short action? The biggest thing is pick a solid bullet that will penetrate into the elk and still get expansion. Accubonds and the ELD Hornady bullets seem to do well.
@MudRunner2005 What velocity will he get with a 7mm-08 AI with the 175? I am just curious to run the ballistics against the creed.

For this yes. Since I'm not expecting a shot past 500 if I don't have to buy/build a whole another rifle plus optic I'd prefer not to.

Berger shows 2610 for the 175 elite for standard 7mm-08. Assuming I gain 150fps the difference between the creed a 7-08AI would be

500 yards Velocity Energy Elev (inches)
6.5 Creed 140gr 2142 1426 47.59
7-08 AI 175gr 2104 1721 50.91

 

[Iclimb]

If your not looking for an excuse I'd just shoot the creed! Frankly if you can't get closer than 400 or 500....well, you'll be able to! Just run a good bullet. Many an elk has been smoked with a 22-250 or 220 swift! Not recommending it but seriously the 6.5 will do you just fine!

 

[MudRunner2005]

You are limited to a short action? The biggest thing is pick a solid bullet that will penetrate into the elk and still get expansion. Accubonds and the ELD Hornady bullets seem to do well.
@MudRunner2005 What velocity will he get with a 7mm-08 AI with the 175? I am just curious to run the ballistics against the creed.

I would guess that with a slower powder like CFE-223, he could get around 2,650-2,750 or so...

 

[MudRunner2005]

For this yes. Since I'm not expecting a shot past 500 if I don't have to buy/build a whole another rifle plus optic I'd prefer not to.

Berger shows 2610 for the 175 elite for standard 7mm-08. Assuming I gain 150fps the difference between the creed a 7-08AI would be

500 yards Velocity Energy Elev (inches)
6.5 Creed 140gr 2142 1426 47.59
7-08 AI 175gr 2104 1721 50.91

I wouldn't assume you're going to gain 150 FPS... SOME Ackleys gain that, some gain more, but some less. I would say you'll probably get about 100 FPS or so gain. But that's still a ****-good gain.