6.5-284 Loading Trouble

[Yotechaser]

I have a Savage 111 Long Range Hunter in 6.5 - .284
My load with 140 gr. Berger VLD's is:

.030" off lands,
H 4831 sc @ 51 grains (it started to pop the primers out the back at 53 grains, and had a stuck bolt at 56 grains,
It was crono'ed at 2978 fps, but ballistics validated at 3027 fps,
Lapua custom brass
Federal 210 match primers

with tiny groups, .224" max spread for 3 shot groups.

 

[Greyfox]

I am trying to find an accurate load with the 140 gn Berger Hunting VLD. I have a custom built Rem. 700 LA with a 28" Lothar Walther barrel with a 1/8 twist. I have been working loads with moly coated bullets using 55-56 gn of H-4831, in Lapua brass. I'm having a lot more trouble to find a load for this rifle than any other. I rarely ask for help, but this rifle and bullets are kicking my ***. If anyone has some pointers are suggestions please help.

Thanks,
ag shooting

I'm in agreement with the prior posts that your load is too hot using H4831sc. I'm surprised that you haven't seen pressure signs, or experienced a sticky bolt. If you are not, perhaps the moly coating is producing lower friction. 53/54 grains has been the max load in my rifles with 54gr producing a sticky bolt and pressure signs. I also see accuracy drop off in conjunction with the pressure signs. The sweet spot for H4831sc using LR primers(I like Fed210M) is 51-53gr. The 140 VLD seating depth appears to have two nodes of accuracy, from near, or in the lands, or .070"-.1" out of the lands. This really seems to depend on the particular load/rifle. I like H4831sc for target shooting, for hunting I prefer Retumbo loaded with 56-58.5gr. It can be used with either LR or magnum primers, the latter generally producing an extra 40-50FPS out of my 24-26" barrels. Either powder will produce sub .5MOA in my rifles without much fuss. I also like the "hunting" VLD's in the Berger 140's.lots of debate on this, but I have seen very consistent performance on game from 50-1000 yards when driven at 6.5x284 velocities. I have never tried moly and have no idea what effect, if any, it would have on a hunting bullet.

 

[ag shooting]

That is good speed and good grouping. My gun is in the shop. My McMillan A3 stock finally arrived; so I'm having it bedded to the gun. I have some loads using R22 that I'm going to try. Now that I know where the seating dept should be and how to find it with the Berger bullets, I'm going to work on that first. Then I'm going to work with the powder to try and get the speed up to 3,000 fps. I will let you'll Know how it all works out. All of this feed back has been great.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[ag shooting]

The moly coating makes a noticeable difference in pressure. I have my rifle and bullets moly coated and I also have my friends 284. The two guns were built the same by the same guy. I shot his 284 with out moly and found that 53-54 gn. of 4831 was max. My 284 with moly did not show the same pressure signs until I got to 56.5 gn. But this may be to hot for accurate shooting. Once I find the load for both 284's, I will test the two rifles with and with out moly.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[65WSM]

Are you using a Wilson seating die? If you are not using a Wilson seating die then you are not using the most accurate system available. I will bet your bullets are being pushed into the case by the point. Do you know how to test this?

Why are you using such fast powder.

My 6.5-284 is a hunting rifle designed to shoot 130 Accubonds so it has a 9 inch twist. I shoot 130 Berger VLDs with it as well. I have a 6.5 WSM with a 8 twist that shoots the 140 Berger hunting VLDs. I also have a friend trim the points on these bullets to the same length. Again with Wilson tools. They shoot markedly better when trimed. Maybe a third less group size.

If you look at the left orange dot (which is 1 inch in diameter) on the screen you will see bullet holes at 300 yards. That is with 140 Berger Hunting VLDs. Not bad for a 1885 Highwall in 6.5 WSM. Note the velocity too.

 

[Wachsmann]

I have to say I agree that the seater stem on most dies will push or seat the VLd bullets from the point of the tip. So you may end up with bullets having different OAL when measure. I just took a drill to my seater yesterday and drilled out the inside some. I had some bullets loaded up using the 210 VLD (300 rum) and measured the shortest one and reset my die to this one. Ran through all of them reseating them with the drilled out seater. Re-measured with a compare gauge and now all are .001 or .0005 measured base to ogive. I hope this will decrease my groups a little and reduce the velocity spread somewhat. Only down side from yesterday is I stuck a case in my FLS die. I have not been able to get it out yet. I'll try a few more things and it no luck, I be buying another reading die set.

 

[ag shooting]

I have noticed that the seating die does not fit the bullet very well. I use the the RCBS comp. die. The point does not touch, it touches the bullet at 1/8"-3/16" from the point. If I drill the seater out some, it will hit further down on the ogive of the bullet. The oal is inconsistent with the die as is. I expected better with comp. dies. This problem will be addressed. Good point.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[65WSM]

I have a friend at my club that had a complete set of RCBS "Competition" dies for his collection of rifles. The problem was he also had the NECO runout gauge system and that exposed the RCBS dies. He bought a complete set of Wilson dies for every caliber and will never go back. Try it yourself. Wilson dies are between 52 and 63 dollars. How can you loose? You will never see experienced 1000 yard or benchrest shooters with RCBS. Go to the competition at your club. Learn from those guys. Several 6.5-284 rifles compete in 600 yard at my club. No RCBS dies. I have asked.