52gr. A-max problems

Kevin

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Apr 27, 2002
Messages
259
Location
Montana
I have a 220 swift AI and have shot 55gr v-max with satisfactory results. I decided to try the 52 a-max. I went out the first day and loaded them with the same load I use with the 55's (45gr. RL15 @ 4250fps)

They shot bad, and I don't mean 1.5" groups compared to .5". I mean an 8" group. Now I was thinking something had to be wrong, like my scope is loose or something. I went home and inspected all parts of the rifle. Eveything checked out fine.

Day two. Thought that maybe it was a fluke so I loaded some more this time just a tad hotter, they were around 4330fps. Shot my group, same result.
I was prepared this time and brought some of the ole trusties along, shot them into a nice little hole.

So what do you think is happening with these bullets?
 

4mesh063

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Joined
Dec 8, 2002
Messages
374
They are destabilizing because of the twist rate in your gun.

I had a similar situation with 55Gr Balistic Tips shooting fine but Sierra's Keyholing Like yours are doing or gonna do shortly. Sierra said switch to a different part# from thier line and they will shoot just fine in the 14 twist but that bullet, that was shorter than the BT in length (both plastic tipped bullets) but it stabilized differently and would not fly out of my gun. My brothers 223 shoots em just fine.
 

Kevin

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Apr 27, 2002
Messages
259
Location
Montana
Thanks,

My gun is a 16 twist, and I thought that it could be a stabilty problem but I did not think there could be that big of a difference between the two bullets.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Could be core to jacket separation. The 52 has a slight boat tail design and will not handle rpm as high as the 55.
 

jcpython357

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Mar 12, 2003
Messages
323
Location
Schofield, WI.
MTBA, Just got my A-MAXs, I noticed they say on the box 1in14 twist, should work good in my VS 223. ALL, anyone tell me if H335 and Benchmark will work about the best for the 223 with these bullets? Put, lets say .005"-010" off the lands. Need some input from the pros out there, never shot the rifle yet, range opens up the 26th. Jay
 

Kevin

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Apr 27, 2002
Messages
259
Location
Montana
I did notice the twist rate recomondation, but they were shorter than the 55's and with the high velocity of my gun I thought the rpm's might be high enough. Guess I was wrong. Oh well.

You should have good luck with H335 or W748 in your 223.
 

dwm

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Feb 26, 2003
Messages
740
Location
Texas
I shoot 52 AMAX out of my 223 with a 9 twist at almost 3300 fps with good results and out of my 22-250 at almost 3700 fps with a 12 twist also with good results.

.223:

3300 f/s with a 9 in/rev twist rate = 264,000 rpm

They don't blow up at this RPM.

22-250:

3700 f/s with a 12 in/rev twist rate = 222,000 rpm

Still ok ...

220 Swift:

4250 f/s with a 16 in/rev twist rate = 191,250 rpm

4330 f/s with a 16 in/rev twist rate = 194,850 rpm

These are pretty high rpm, almost what I was getting out of my 22-250 ...

I would think a 1 in 16 twist should be able to stablize a 52 Gr AMAX as long as they are going fast enough. Bullet RPM is a function of forward velocity.

I'm sure stability is way more complicated than this, but one would think this would be ok ...

Doug
 

Kevin

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Apr 27, 2002
Messages
259
Location
Montana
dwm,

I know what you mean, they suggest 1-14 twist, so take for instance a 22-250 at 3700 with a 1-14"

190285 rpm

Which is less than mine. I emailed Hornady and they said they didnt know how the bullets would act over 3900 fps. So maybe they are just not meant to handle that velocity.
 

H-BAR

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Apr 18, 2003
Messages
235
Location
Newburgh NY
Hey Jay H335 is about the best powder for that bullet in the 223. If you work on the load you won't believe how good they will shoot!!! My AR15 punches 5 of them through one slightly stretched out hole!!! This load won't be that fast though. If you want speed with nearly the same accuracy(which is also a one hole group but stretched ever so slightly more) use BLC-2. These powders burn halfway clean for ball powders but are super easy to meter. GOOD LUCK WITH MY FAVORITE ROUND!!!
 

jcpython357

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Mar 12, 2003
Messages
323
Location
Schofield, WI.
HBAR, Thanks for the info, I've heard that Varget works well and that Rem. custom shop uses H4895 for their 223s, got'em all loaded up plus some Benchmark, we'll see this weekend if the weather cooperates. I suppose your the wrong guy to try and talk my son out of an AR15, huh.
Jay
 

H-BAR

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Apr 18, 2003
Messages
235
Location
Newburgh NY
Yeah I am the wrong guy and could possibly talk you into one! My 6724 flat top Colt is proof as to why they call them black magic!
This thing shoots as good as most bolt guns! With 52gr Hornady match 52gr Amax or 68gr Hornady match bullets and the right powder charges for each load they make one slightly stretched bullet hole at 100 yards!So you too can believe in MAGIC(BLACK MAGIC THAT IS)
 

jcpython357

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Mar 12, 2003
Messages
323
Location
Schofield, WI.
H-BAR, Do you have a match barrel in your Colt? And what is your opinion on the Bushmaster 'varminter' model? Does a 'AR' type rifle require any special care re; maintanance, compared to a nice bolt action to keep them shooting good, or is pretty much lock and load, fire in the hole.
Jay
 

nbnico

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2003
Messages
8
Location
eastern Pa
Jay, try some Ramshot Xterminator in your 223. I have found it and Benchmark work very well with 50 to 52 grain bullets in my 700VS 223Rem. Excellent accuracy and velocity. Exterminator gives me lower extreme spreads and a little better accuracy at 300yds, less vertical most likely due to the more uniform velocity. Best bullets so far - Sierra Blitzking and Hornady Vmax, both 50 gr. Varget seems slow for this bullet and I could not get good velocity or accuracy. But of course that is just in my rifle.
 

Bluebeemer

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Joined
Mar 21, 2003
Messages
62
Location
Central Illinois
Jay, I haven't started reloading for my Rem 700VS, Sav 12BVSS and RRA AR Varmint 24 as yet, but came across some WW USA 45gr hp, and Black Hills blue box 50gr V-max & 52gr Moly hp from a friend. His divorce was my salvation! Where I am headed is to tell you all three rifles shoot the loads listed under 3/4". Not bad for cheap factory ammo. The RRA will shoot with the bolt guns all day long. A friend shoots an identical load as H-Bar in his RRA with same one-hole groups. This is where my reloading will start. If you buy the rifle for your son, you will always be trying to get it from him for your own shooting! You had better buy two!

The Bushmaster, Colt, Rock River Arms, and DPMS all make very good varmint models. I have shot and enjoyed all of them. The RRA is the only one I still have/use because RRA is not too far from me and are super nice to deal with. I even mounted that darn ole Chinese-made Millett 6-25X56 on it! Sorry, couldn't resist. -- Mike
 

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