45 ACP on Brown Bear.????

[scpaul]

I wasn't originally but over 40 years things change. But my "legend" endures.

 

[69precision]

Years ago - in upstate Michigan - a hunter killed a Big Brown Bear - which had at least half a dozen .45 bullets in it. The guy shooting the .45 was never found. A .45 is deadly on 200 lb humans - but hardly noticeable on a 700 Pound Brown Bear/Griz - who also has a thick fur coat.

How many years ago? I've never heard of grizzlies in Michigan.

 

[Wyowind]

You can carry pistol here while bowhunting. It's hairy walking out with a backpack full of meat. Stop . Look around. Same when cutting up elk or deer. I stop every few minutes and stand up and look around. Did with my Muley and elk last year. The elk was in the same area at Bobcat Hulahand trail where two University of Wyoming wrestlers got mauled a week before. That day they did I was coming home on South Fork and saw a bunch of F&G , Sheriff's and an ambulance pass me going back up. Next day I read what happened. A week later I shot my elk there. I was doing a lot of looking around and butchering quick. Helped buddy with his also a 125 yards from me after I got mine to truck. A month later we came back to look for a knife. Griz has tore both carcasses apart and ripped up sage all around to cover up and bear cr@p all over. No knife . Let's go !

That place is notorious for grizzly bear activity. Probably best to forget about any handguns in there, and instead find that buddy that can go in with you and is also handy with a good rifle! Preferably a big rifle!

The wrestlers were lucky. Sort of anyway. At least one of them was hurt rather severely. But he came away with his life. So I guess that would be a win!

WyoWind

 

[ericbc7]

I have a Springfield armory .45 A1 and a 6" Anaconda .44 mag. I'm carrying the .44 if bears are on the menu.

 

[BigNate]

Good enough for self protection, but too stupid for a Brown Bear. Ain't no way I'd try it.

This is a common idea being shared around the internet, but rarely do people actually try to learn for themselves what level of performance can be achieved.

The standard 45acp ammo is loaded for 100 year old pistols. The same people touting the 45-70 for bear defense are not suggesting using 100+ year old performance level ammo for said bear protection. The same considerations are made for shotguns as well, and many other cartridges for that matter.

The previously posted video is just one example of modern ammo, in modern pistols. The 45acp loaded to modern pressures is on par with the 10mm, if not exceeding it, and just barely behind the 460 Rowland.

Deep penetration is not what people argue about. So if a 40 caliber bullet penetrates the same depth as a 45 caliber, both with the same type bullet, which is better?
It's very important to choose ammo carefully when it comes to bear defense in whatever instrument you choose.

 

[3chester]

This is a common idea being shared around the internet, but rarely do people actually try to learn for themselves what level of performance can be achieved.

The standard 45acp ammo is loaded for 100 year old pistols. The same people touting the 45-70 for bear defense are not suggesting using 100+ year old performance level ammo for said bear protection. The same considerations are made for shotguns as well, and many other cartridges for that matter.

The previously posted video is just one example of modern ammo, in modern pistols. The 45acp loaded to modern pressures is on par with the 10mm, if not exceeding it, and just barely behind the 460 Rowland.

Deep penetration is not what people argue about. So if a 40 caliber bullet penetrates the same depth as a 45 caliber, both with the same type bullet, which is better?
It's very important to choose ammo carefully when it comes to bear defense in whatever instrument you choose.

Do partly agree. the 10mm and 45 ACP +P, are similar load levels.Take the 10mm Auto, 180grain,@1,300fps = 675 ft lbs of energy. Then the 45acp+P, 185grain at 1,200fps = 591 ft lbs. Here's the 460 Rowland, 185grain at 1,503fps = 928 ft lbs of energy, that's about a 55% increase,in energy ft lbs, it's bit more than, just barely ahead of the 45 ACP +P's. The cartridge case and barrel setup can operate at 40,000cup.

 

[xsn10s]

IMO energy isn't much of a factor when we're talking handguns and bear protection, or any self defense equation. Or it's not MY end all be all when considering pistol cartridges. Yes I want the largest cartridge I can shoot WELL FAST. But a pistol is just a backup to my rifle. Pucker factor is going to be extreme, frog's behinds are going to be loose in comparison. All I care about is being able to penetrate the skull and do a CNC stop. I shot a lot of competition to be able to do this. And don't mistake pistol competitions with actual life saving training. Pistol competitions IMO is just a cheap way to practice gun manipulation and marksmanship I learned IRL training courses. From people that "been there, done that.". Having all the energy in the world means nothing if you can't hit the mark.

 

[3chester]

IMO energy isn't much of a factor when we're talking handguns and bear protection, or any self defense equation. Or it's not MY end all be all when considering pistol cartridges. Yes I want the largest cartridge I can shoot WELL FAST. But a pistol is just a backup to my rifle. Pucker factor is going to be extreme, frog's behinds are going to be loose in comparison. All I care about is being able to penetrate the skull and do a CNC stop. I shot a lot of competition to be able to do this. And don't mistake pistol competitions with actual life saving training. Pistol competitions IMO is just a cheap way to practice gun manipulation and marksmanship I learned IRL training courses. From people that "been there, done that.". Having all the energy in the world means nothing if you can't hit the mark.

Sure, think was just showing 460 Rowland had a power advantage over 45 ACP, if less power works on ur spread, stay with it.

 

[BigNate]

Early on in this thread I believe I addressed "energy levels" so not going to retype everything.

Anyone who starts quoting velocity, bullet weights, and energy numbers, without looking at penetration is missing the most important part of the equation.

Further, looking at mild hp ammo as a data point is a mute point.

The acp can be loaded to near 45 Super levels. The 45 Super is nipping the heels of the Rowland. In factory ammo the 10mm hard cast is a good choice, but has recieved negative comments out of factory Glock barrels.

Bottom line to me is someone can make a 45acp with the correct ammo choice a viable defensive tool.

If you're willing to learn a bit, and make the needed mods, you can make a 45acp into a 45 Super shooting ammo that exceeds the 10mm.

It's good to share this info so more people can be better armed with both knowledge and proper sidearms..

 

[3chester]

Early on in this thread I believe I addressed "energy levels" so not going to retype everything.

Anyone who starts quoting velocity, bullet weights, and energy numbers, without looking at penetration is missing the most important part of the equation.

Further, looking at mild hp ammo as a data point is a mute point.

The acp can be loaded to near 45 Super levels. The 45 Super is nipping the heels of the Rowland. In factory ammo the 10mm hard cast is a good choice, but has recieved negative comments out of factory Glock barrels.

Bottom line to me is someone can make a 45acp with the correct ammo choice a viable defensive tool.

If you're willing to learn a bit, and make the needed mods, you can make a 45acp into a 45 Super shooting ammo that exceeds the 10mm.

It's good to share this info so more people can be better armed with both knowledge and proper sidearms..

Yep, those were max loads for 185 grain, 45acp +P, no big deal. thought u were thinking the 460 Rowland's 55% advantage over that, was close, no? Lehighs good bullet choice, if serious work but, not the 1 and only. Load safe, watch for the bears!

 

[del2les]

When I am not carrying my 45 Super, I do like to carry my 45 Colts with +P loads as below.
The row with 4 LC's is left to right, 1) 255 RFN for comparison, 2) 200gr hard cast 10mm bullet in a sabot loaded +P @ 1,620 fps bear/game load, 3) 10mm 165JHP in sabot @ a milder 1,500+fps for personal defense and deer sized game, 4) and a .357 125gr JHP in sabot @ 1,750+ fps for large varmints and personal defense.
Not shown are my handloaded 300gr hard cast +P loads.

All of these rounds can be driven faster with a couple substantially so, and all these rounds gain substantial velocity in my rifles.

 

[memtb]

I am a big advocate of handgun hunting and believe that some can be very effective on the biggest of bears with proper bullets and placement….the 45ACP did not make the long list!

As mentioned previously …… with handgun, energy numbers mean "nearly nothing"! It's all about bullet diameter, mass (weight) and penetration!

If your rifle hunting …..a rifle in the hands trumps "any" handgun in the holster! memtb

 

[3chester]

I am a big advocate of handgun hunting and believe that some can be very effective on the biggest of bears with proper bullets and placement….the 45ACP did not make the long list!

As mentioned previously …… with handgun, energy numbers mean "nearly nothing"! It's all about bullet diameter, mass (weight) and penetration!

If your rifle hunting …..a rifle in the hands trumps "any" handgun in the holster! memtb

S&W 500 MAGNUM RECORD 5 shots in 1 SECOND in high speed with Jerry Miculek about 9 years ago on youtube. There are exceptions to the rules!

 

[scpaul]

Jerry Miculec is definitely an exception to most any handgun rule.