Bought some Lil gun to run in my 44 mag with 240 grn hardcast swc. Anybody got a good load for it. I am trying to stay around 1200 fps to keep it manageable for plinking. Also have some copper plated 240 grn h.p. Can I run the loads with the same grns? Running this through a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Newer to reloading for pistols. So any info helps.
44 mag and lil gun
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Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
that powder is a bit slow burning for cast in a 44... you may be able to get by with it, but I'd think about something blue dot/ #7 or faster... I say this and I just picked up a keg of Vit n100 last month with the intention of running heavier cast pill loads... n110 is a stick powder though, so I can back off a bit without serious issues. Ball powders tend to fall off quickly and get unstable (squib, etc.) when you back them off too far. I've had to help drive a pill from my Pop's 44 barrel before from backed off #9 loads squibbing- not fun.
On the flip side, #9, 4100, lil gun type powders make great full throttle powders for a 44 or 357.
On the flip side, #9, 4100, lil gun type powders make great full throttle powders for a 44 or 357.
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
It's more of a pressure thing than fps. you want the bullet to obdurate to fill the bore without going over the alloy's tensile strength and messing up the base of the bullet. They also have to be big enough to start with or gas cutting will mess things up good. I haven't chrono's all of my lead bullet loads and jacketed loads (who am I kidding; I hardly shoot jacketed in a pistol) but 9 grains Tightgroup with a 200 or 10 Tightgroup with a 240 seems to get to the 1100-1200 fps mark in a 44. I've got Herco (I've loaded Unique also) loaded to about the same pressures. I usually get about 41 mag performance out of my 44 mag pistol using scrap lead hand cast and water quenched.
Now, my 357 is a bit different animal. I'm running 15 4227 with a 150-158 cast depending on the pistol fired by a wspm primer. I haven't bothered to chrono but it hits hard for just being a 357.
I think I'll eventually try a .430" sizer die instead of a .429" in my 44 even though the .429" pills won't pass the cylinder throats. The .358" sizer seems to be better with my 357's than the .357" that my Pops has. It all depends on the pistol. Some things usually work; the rest is trial and error.
Now, my 357 is a bit different animal. I'm running 15 4227 with a 150-158 cast depending on the pistol fired by a wspm primer. I haven't bothered to chrono but it hits hard for just being a 357.
I think I'll eventually try a .430" sizer die instead of a .429" in my 44 even though the .429" pills won't pass the cylinder throats. The .358" sizer seems to be better with my 357's than the .357" that my Pops has. It all depends on the pistol. Some things usually work; the rest is trial and error.
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
There are things you can do to go full power (and actually make use of powder like lil gun) with cast pills in a 44 like using a gas check mold and using rather hard alloy also. I'd also use a good lube like Lyman moly. I can run water quenched pills in my 375 H@H to 1750 fps with Lyman moly using a 280 grain gs pill with the driving band engaged in the rifling on loading. That load prints just under 1.5moa usually.
My 405 Win seems to have turned on with a RCBS mold intended for a 416 rem that's gas checked and lubed with Lyman moly too. I still have to work that up with a different powder as rl10 was tossing bullets a foot low at 100 yards with the sight fully up (too peaky- wasn't getting enough work done. I suppose the pressure was coming up quick then falling off like a rock) and I don't feel like changing the blade. The old Lyman plain base mold shoots like a shotgun in my 405. I even tried using over powder wads for a .410 shotgun with only marginal success. I guess I should have read up a bit more in Ken Waters work wirth the 405; he could never get the Lyman plain base to work well in his 405 either.
I haven't gone to gas checked bullets in my pistols but may do so in the near future as I want to burn up the n110. Just haven't had to I guess.
My 405 Win seems to have turned on with a RCBS mold intended for a 416 rem that's gas checked and lubed with Lyman moly too. I still have to work that up with a different powder as rl10 was tossing bullets a foot low at 100 yards with the sight fully up (too peaky- wasn't getting enough work done. I suppose the pressure was coming up quick then falling off like a rock) and I don't feel like changing the blade. The old Lyman plain base mold shoots like a shotgun in my 405. I even tried using over powder wads for a .410 shotgun with only marginal success. I guess I should have read up a bit more in Ken Waters work wirth the 405; he could never get the Lyman plain base to work well in his 405 either.
I haven't gone to gas checked bullets in my pistols but may do so in the near future as I want to burn up the n110. Just haven't had to I guess.
wonderman4
Well-Known Member
Lil'Gun burns very hot and a feller could expect gas cutting in short order. That's the main reason that I quit using it in my revolvers. It works OK in the 22 Hornet, though. With cast bullets in the 44 Rem Mag, I use mostly 2400 and easily get the 1200 fps you are looking for and don't have to use magnum primers to boot. Also, hard cast is not for me as it is just a marketing ploy. The commercial bullet casters do it so they can ship their bullets in a box and not get deformed. I never run anything harder than wheel weights.
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
"hard cast" is marketing jargon, much like "temp. stable". Linotype, lyman #2, wheelweights, 20 to 1, pure lead are some common types of lead (alloy) used with bullets. Both are actually rather amusing...
That is an interesting thought,using lil gun for cast bullets in 44…..for years now I've been casting my own lead bullets using wheel weights and 9 grains of Unique powder n I also have some gas checked n speed them up but I don't remember my recipe for them right off but for pure enjoyment of shooting I really like shooting cast but you do have to be more careful n don't get it to hot of a load
cohunt
Well-Known Member
I push 240 cast bullets to 1230fps In a 3.5" bbl with h110
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
treat plated bullets as cast
I loaded up a few swc hard cast with the same load as my plated bullets and they shot very well. I forgot to shot over the chronograph, but they seemed like a middle of the road load which is what I am looking for. I loaded up another 50 and will head to the range once bear season closes to get some more hard data.
I tried Lil Gun many moons ago and did not continue it's load developememt.
I read where repeted use burned forcing cones on revolvers and I believe it.
I read that Hodgen changed the powder mix a bit to stop that but have no first hand knowledge of that.
I would send an email to Hodgen and ask them about the change of mixture.They also have load data on their site.
Hope this helps
I read where repeted use burned forcing cones on revolvers and I believe it.
I read that Hodgen changed the powder mix a bit to stop that but have no first hand knowledge of that.
I would send an email to Hodgen and ask them about the change of mixture.They also have load data on their site.
Hope this helps
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