Alex...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>My neighbor is an Ex Navy SEAL and he was a sniper instructor and he didn't like the .50 BMG for all of the disadvantages that PrimeTime mentioned.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am constantly amazed at how many people have neighbors that are "ex SEALs"... I didn't know that there were that many SEALs in existance...
I can't speak to what your "ex seal" friend liked or didn't like, or how long ago he was actively shooting the 50.
In the early days, the only rifles that were available were the Barretts and Amac 5100, and while they were nice rifles, they did not have the accuracy potential of the current 50BMG sniper rifles... the current 50BMG sniper rifles are pleasent to shoot, and VERY, VERY accurate at long range... plus there is the advantage of being able to use other types of ammo for unexpected contingencies... armor piercing for punching through steel... a bronze bullet will just be a "Splat" on the surface of hard steel... Incendary for igniting gas tanks, etc.
And... the military version of the .408 is NOT a light weight rifle... go to their websight and look at it. It is a BIG puppy... ALL of the very long range sniper (or benchrest) rifles are in the 30 pound "plus" range
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> ... Also Sierra is making a bullet for the .408 with a lead core because it is on an e-mail from the designer of the .408 sent to me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As of this date, Sierra is NOT tooling up for any .408 bullet, and has no intention to do so.
Plus, the whole ballistic advantage to the 408 is the long bronze bullets, with vary high BC... without these bullets, the .408 is just another round in the .416 Rigby class.
The 408 rifle is a very specialized weapon, and needs the bronze bullets to live up to its purpose.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>The advantages of the .408 are not soley bases on the bullet. If you have "read up on it" you would have seen that there is more than just the bullet, there is the powder, and the case also. If you were to use a .50 in what ever bullet you wanted and compaired it to the .408 I beet you would see an advantage in the .408 whether you like it or not.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is a "beet" that you can't back up, so there is no point in making it.
They use standard powders and primers.
There is nothing magical about the case... most high intensity cases (300WM, .338 RUM, 50BMG) will easily take 60,000+ psi, all day long.
Militarys are very reluctant to get involved with weapons systems that have only one source of ammo, and in this case the source in not a big, well established munitions company like Winchester or Remington... but three guys in Idaho, and a small brass maker in Europe... that is a tough sell.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Maybe when you said that is it is as good as it should be then it should be winning all of the 1,000 yard competitions, maybe you should have considered that since it is such a new round that knowbody has one or they don't want to spend thousands more to get one and they will stick with their .50.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It is NOT new... it has been around for a few years... and there are quite a few .408s floating around, and if it was that good, it would have showed up at a match... also, if the Lost RIver bullets were all that much better, they would be winning matches in other calibers... these bullets ARE available in 30 cal, .338, and 50cal... but they are not showing up at the matches... but the A-Maxs and the Barnes ARE showing up.
If they are good... they need to make an effort for more public exposure.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>About the record with the .50 having better groups at 1,000 yards than the .30 can't really be true because the record at that 1,000 yard mark is 1.5 inch groups from a .300 Win Mag and if I'm not mistaken that is a .30 cal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I didn't state that the 50BMG held the current world record... though it did hold it for about 1.5 years.
What I said was... "1000 yard matches with 50BMG rifles are shooting smaller groups than their 30 cal brothers...
Please note the part about 1000 yard matches with 50BMG rifles are shooting smaller groups than their 30 cal brothers... Please note the use of the plural "s"...By this, I meant that if you took a large group of top 50BMG shooters and an equal number of top 30 cal shooters, and held a 1000 yd benchrest match (or class "F" match) the average group size of ALL the 50 cal shooters would be smaller than the average of the 30 cal shooters... I would have thought this would have been obvious by my original wording... but I guess it was not.
And I said "... the 50 cal record with a 50BMG is under 3" @ 1000 yds." in responce to your coment that implied a lack of quality cases for the 50BMG.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>About the weight a few pounds less to me would be a good thing. I think everything you have against the .408 is opinion too. You like the .50 better because you have one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is a blatantly false statement, and NOT true by any means... you presume knowledge about me and my buying habits that you don't have. .. without knowing me, or what and why I purchase firearms.
When I shot a 300WM, I didn't "dislike" the 50 because I didn't own one... I looked at the 50 from many points of veiw, and liked what I saw, and I bought one.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>How do you know that the Military has little interest in the round so far? Are you in the Military and know all about this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No... I'm in the research business... and do research in many areas, including firearms and bullet design... I also have built tactical (Sniper) rifles... and some of my very good friends are currently the top instructors at SOTIC (where the snipers are trained, and sniper equipment is evaluated).
CatShooter.
[ 08-28-2002: Message edited by: CatShooter ]