.408 Status???

Warren Jensen

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Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
80
Location
Arco, ID 83213
DAN TEC

The price of the bullets are $1.25 retail, an order of 1000 gets a wholesale price quote. These are prices for the current level of production. When the orders are sufficient to keep the machines running full-time the price will come down to around $.65 each, wholesale.

Dave Manson is doing our reamers.

C-H is doing our dies. Cost is $225.00 a set, retail.

The barrel specs. are 1:13 twist RH, eight lands, .4080" groove, .4010" land, land width .050", square cut, no (or little) taper. It is important to follow these specs. for the bullets rotational drag and linear drag to be "balanced".
 

DANTEC

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Joined
Jul 6, 2002
Messages
390
Location
France
dear M JENSEN

Thanks for your answer , is it possible to get cases directly from your contractor in Germany because Germany is in europe and that make less paper work for import in France .

what is the price of empty case by 100 .

good shooting

DAN TEC
 

CatShooter

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May 8, 2001
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South Windham, CT - in Moo-Cow country
Warren...

Everything I have said, has come from your website, or from statements by your representitives, members of your group, or SOTIC sources.

If you are not responsible for these facts, then you and your group need to get together and clear up some of these mis-statements that are floating around.

CatShooter

[ 08-28-2002: Message edited by: CatShooter ]
 

Warren Jensen

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May 3, 2001
Messages
80
Location
Arco, ID 83213
Lets look at that statement by Mr. Coburn.

Identify specifically where the term ".408 bronze bullets" is used in our website or by our representatives. You used this term earlier in this thread.

Identify specifically where the price,"around $2.50 each" is used in our website or by our representatives. You used this price earlier in this thread.

We recently shot the .408 CheyTac and every significant 50 BMG ammunition including, M2 machinegun, 750 gr. AMAX, and the Barnes 50 cal Bronze solids through the Weibel Radar at Yuma Proving Grounds. The .408 CheyTac 419 gr. ammunition had a greater supersonic range than any of them. Your statement to the contrary earlier in this thread is based upon supposition and opinion and not science and is characteristic of unprofessional analysis.

"Balanced Flight" as described mathematically and objectively is real and quantitative. The bullets conforming to this formula have a patent pending. Patents often times take years and only the simplest ones become final in three months. Statements to the contrary are nonsense.

Describe specifically how being in existence since April of 2001 qualifies as "the .408 has now been around for a while". You stated this earlier in this thread.

Describe specifically how you qualify as the spokesman for "our military", as in "our military has no interest in it". There are many parts of our military and some have more than a little interest in it as demonstrated by their presence at our shooting ranges.

And lastly your tactic of smearing me and implying that my credentials are false is despicable. For everyone's information Mr. Coburn called up West Point to check on my academic record. When told that I was awarded a Bachelor of Science Degree with a concentration in International Security Affairs he E-mailed an associate of mine to state that there was something wrong with my record. He was not specific about what was wrong, just that something was wrong.

For clarification, I claim to be an Ordnance Engineer. Which I am. West Point at the time I graduated only awarded Bachelor of Science Degrees no matter what the course of study. West Point, also, did not classify any course of study as a major, or a minor, no matter the numbers of hours taken. They allowed you to pick a concentration. As we took between 23 and 25 credit hours a semester for four years we each amassed enough hours in separate courses of study for three or four majors and numersous minors. My major courses of study were Ordnance Engineering, International Security, and International Law in that order. My Senior Thesis was on long range artillery design. At the time of graduation I designated the International Security Affairs as my concentration as it seemed the most appropriate to my being an Intelligence Officer. That does not in anyway diminish my studies in Ordnance Engineering. Mr. Coburn seems to want to use any partial fact or appearance of deception to imply lack of credibility. He also seems to think that I would be ashamed to discuss it. I am not.

Mr. Coburn, in my opinion, repeatedly demonstrates the worst kind of conduct. Partial facts, incorrect facts, inuendo, smears, and generally bad behavior.

I am content to face the judgment of the reader and of history. I won't accept judgment by Mr. Coburn.
 

ross spagrud

Active Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Messages
30
Location
Winnipeg
I think the 408 is an excellent round and
the theory behind it is sound.

In addition to shooting this round I have
reviewed the test data from the good folks
associated with its development and find
it entirely reasonable.

FWIW

Ross
 

titanium

Active Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
41
Location
Winnipeg, MB
And... I don't care how you spin it... 0.0005 does NOT = one/50millionth.

CatShooter (aka Paul coburn


You are right, it doesn't. You have a typo in the post that contains this value. You have just shown us that .0005" is 5 ten thousands, or half a thou. In Warrens original post of .00005" does equal 50 millionths.

The other day I had a lesson on basic sniper math. Today I continue with some basic machinist math.

.1 = one tenth
.01 = one hundreth
.001 = one thou.
.0001= one ten thou.
.00001= one one hundred thou.

.00001 X 5 = 5 one hundred thou.
5 one hunderd thou X ten = 50/ millionth of an inch.

I have a keen interest in the .408 Cheytac. I plan on building one, I plan on shooting it. I don't buy snake oil, and I don't think this is the case. It is some guys who are putting alot of money into research and marketing. The investment to get brass made to proper spec, as well as trial and error figuring out twist rates, land profiles, bullet geometry is all very complicated stuff that I am glad someone has done for me. Thank you Warren and crew. Last year at a military trial I witnessed with my own eyes and a spotting scope, the .408 cartridge in a Windrunner rifle on the firing point. Throughout the day, many different professional snipers from two great nations fired the system at a tank hull 2300 meters distant. The impacts were clear on the side and I bet the 30 shot group was 24"-36" in width, maybe half that in height. I saw it and was in awe. The wind was far from co-operative, mirage at times was interesting. Dean was running a laptop and would spit out some environmentaly corrected data just prior to the shot. To see it is to believe it and I saw it. Catshooter if you don't want one, don't buy one. Let people make their own decisions from the information presented. This should not be an attack on a personal level, if someone should make a typo, they should not be abused for it (after all you did it to!). If you sincerely have a problem with this post, I invite you to send me an e-mail, this public ****ing match is not classy in the least.
For the record, our .338 Lapua did mighty fine in smashing up a rock at 1200m and then another at 1400m at the same trial.

Steve Altstadt
www.prairiegunworks.com
 

texas

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Joined
Sep 26, 2001
Messages
665
Location
North, Texas
The 408 Chey-Tac sounds good to me. Don't really want a 50 draws to much attention to big brother but, to have a gun that can do the basically the same thing GREAT!!!

No one thought that the government would be interessted in the SSK 300 Whisper either but ours and others were and are using it.
Again a small manufacture can make a BIG difference.

THIS FORUM IS NOT ABOUT A ****ING CONTEST it's about learning and sharing!!!!!!!!!!!
Catshooter if you have a beef with Warren handled it like a man take it outside and face to face. I'm getting tired of the bad mouthing(yes, I don't have to read it but, you don't have to post it either!).

Now lets find something else to talk about.
 

DANTEC

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Joined
Jul 6, 2002
Messages
390
Location
France
Dear jackrabbit

my point of view is

first : make evidences that this cartridge works , not really difficult just need a barrel and some reload components. So I think that this is possible to make trials and even on 50 cal action it works for trial. just need to eject the case with a rod ( not fun but for trials that ok )

second : compare the results from several sources ( differents shooters diferents barrels makers diferents load and range )

as soon as the two first point are ok and if the results are good enought I see any problem to use this round .

at the begining of the 338 LAPUA mag only one maker make the loaded round ( now just four ) and that a quite popular round , 408 can do the same just need to make evidence of the quality of this round without any amazing adds and virtual informations on
the net just go to range and shoot with a minimum of technical knowledge .

last point Military have lot of money and if something work, price is not really a problem

as I have said previously, I can set a rifle or two in 408 Cheyenne for tests and trials I have a 3200 meter range so range is not a problem .

wait for a proposal from the maker , and agree to share the results .

Good shooting

DAN TEC
 

Nighthawk

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Mar 2, 2002
Messages
429
Location
Central Minnesota
From my last post I have "come out of hiding," I'm glad to see that people agree with me. When everybody who is making one, is done making it. Want to try some long range shooting?
 

Nighthawk

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Mar 2, 2002
Messages
429
Location
Central Minnesota
By the way Catshooter, when you said about a lot of people who have neighbors who are ex-navy seals, that was true. I have been to his house numerous times and have seen his stuff. I forgot the name of the war he was in, but he lost many friends. I'm greatful he was fighting for our freedoms, and so should you.
 

DANTEC

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Joined
Jul 6, 2002
Messages
390
Location
France
without to enter in the fight between Catshooter and M JENSEN , in the aim to get or give more information to promote the caliber that probably not a silly idea to :

on the 408 Cheyenne website or on the LRW website :

add a page with prices information ( cases , bullets .... )
add a page or informations on reloading ( dies maker , price of dies ... )
add informations on barrel maker able to do barrels or .
add informations on barrel specs lenght , pitch , bore dims grooves dims ...
add informations on chamber drawing and who make reamer and if this caliber is free of use .
add a name of a technical contact on your sites

and perhaps create a club or a small association on the net ( as accuratereloading.com ) of shooters ( real owners and real shooters of 408 Cheyenne and not virtual shooters or the neighbor of the friend of the shooter...and not gun collector with 5 shots in a year ...) and to share groups, tips , load infos and all information in the aim to make a real add for this caliber .

I try to get informations by sending a mail to Mister Jensen .

just one question to Steve Altstad :

do you work for Prairie Gun Works company ? I just not understand why you? Prairie gun works have not built a rifle for 408 Cheyenne before or if I missunterstand do you speak about your own project rifle and if Prairie Gun Works have already a test rifle ?

good shooting

DAN TEC
 

Warren Jensen

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Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
80
Location
Arco, ID 83213
DAN TEC and Brent,

I agree those are good ideas and are overdue. There are only so many minutes in a day and the last eight months have found me trying to squeeze more than 1440 if them into a day. The web sites will be updated.

Thank you for the comments.
 

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