longestrange
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Given the cost and lack of availability of .378 Weatherby brass, is it possible to fireform .375 brass in a .378 and then reload?
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.375 H&H Fireform to .375 WBY?
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Speedo
Well-Known Member
The title of your thread and what is in the post are in conflict, what are you trying to do?
Gus
Gus
Tikkamike
Well-Known Member
doesnt matter if you are trying to go 375 or 378 the answer is no.
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
Since the 375 wby is simply a blown out 375h@h the answer on that caliber is yes. However, as pointed out earlier, if you are actually talking about the 378 wby (instead of the 375 wby as your title indicates) then it's an adamant NO, as the casing is an altogether different design and is both fatter and taller.
btw, welcome to LRH.
btw, welcome to LRH.
Tikkamike
Well-Known Member
If the why is set at minimum headspace an h&h case won't chamber. Also there is a thousandth difference in diameter above the belt so that may lead to shorter brass life since it'll tend to stretch easier
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
Mike, I've never actually had a .375 Weatherby, or loaded for one. I have been around a few, and have considered pushing mine out on occasion. Mostly those guysused fireformed .300 H&H, or .375 H&H. I tossed my Warren Page book as it was falling apart, but I'm fairly certain he also fireformed this way.
I'd never noticed that .001 difference before, but a check of drawings it is certainly there.
One of the selling points for the .375 Weatherby has been the availability to substitute .375 H&H if your ammo has been lost.
I've never known anyone to have a factory .375 Weatherby so maybe the reamers guys are using are a bit generous. Belts can vary a bit also.
So you've got me scratching my head. I'm guessing in the instance of a minimum chamber reamer, it could be a problem.
You probably know, although the OP doesn't ask, will a .375 RUM clean up a .375 H&H chamber?
I'd prefer the .375 RUM to either of the Weatherby choices, but both are certainly fine cartridges in their own right.
MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
To chime in on this, I own a Win Model 70 in 375Weatherby, it is a classic stainless model that I had rechambered several years ago.
I actually fireform my brass from 375H+H brass with a fast pistol powder and a plug of soap in the neck, works wonders and produces brass that EXACTLY fits my chamber and has no stretching above the belt, which did happen to me when firing full power H+H handloads to fireform with. The .001" difference poses no problem, nor does the difference in apparent headspace dimensions between the 2 cartridge specs, once fireformed the shoulder takes over for this duty anyway negating the belts official purpose.
My brass lasts up to 10 loads, has very little stretching and runs a genuine 200+fps faster than the H+H runs with all bullet weights. I was very impressed with the reduction in case stretching, it has almost gone away. After I fireform my brass it generally shortens around .010"-.015" in the neck and this has taken 4-5 loads to stretch to minimum length of 2.840"
Harperc,
Yes, a RUM reamer will totally clean up a H+H chamber if the neck/body juncture isn't oversize in the original H+H chamber, some rifles have been known to show a step just forward of the shoulder.
In all honesty, the difference in performance between the RUM and Weatherby is neither here nor there, we ran 2 rifles side by side and with identical bullets the RUM only averaged 20fps faster than the Weatherby, even though the RUM had a 26" barrel compared to my 24" barrel.
Hope this helps you choose one.
Longestrange,
You will need to clarify whether you're referring to the 375 or 378 Weatherby to get a correct response from us mere mortals.
Cheers.
gun)
I actually fireform my brass from 375H+H brass with a fast pistol powder and a plug of soap in the neck, works wonders and produces brass that EXACTLY fits my chamber and has no stretching above the belt, which did happen to me when firing full power H+H handloads to fireform with. The .001" difference poses no problem, nor does the difference in apparent headspace dimensions between the 2 cartridge specs, once fireformed the shoulder takes over for this duty anyway negating the belts official purpose.
My brass lasts up to 10 loads, has very little stretching and runs a genuine 200+fps faster than the H+H runs with all bullet weights. I was very impressed with the reduction in case stretching, it has almost gone away. After I fireform my brass it generally shortens around .010"-.015" in the neck and this has taken 4-5 loads to stretch to minimum length of 2.840"
Harperc,
Yes, a RUM reamer will totally clean up a H+H chamber if the neck/body juncture isn't oversize in the original H+H chamber, some rifles have been known to show a step just forward of the shoulder.
In all honesty, the difference in performance between the RUM and Weatherby is neither here nor there, we ran 2 rifles side by side and with identical bullets the RUM only averaged 20fps faster than the Weatherby, even though the RUM had a 26" barrel compared to my 24" barrel.
Hope this helps you choose one.
Longestrange,
You will need to clarify whether you're referring to the 375 or 378 Weatherby to get a correct response from us mere mortals.
Cheers.
gun)
Tikkamike
Well-Known Member
I guess I spoke without knowing my facts, I just looked up the specs on the H&H and the WBY and say the .001 difference and in my mind it was close but wouldnt work in all instances so to me not really an option. I didnt realize it was common practice. I dont ever plan to own a 375 wby but if I ever do thats good to know. As for a rum reamer cleaning up a H&H hole I really dont know ^^someone up there said it would so I assume he is right...seems like it would.
The OP hasn't been back, but he needs to clarify if he's talking about the .375 Weatherby as indicated in his title, or the .378 Weatherby as indicated in the body of the post. They're two completely different rounds. The .375 Weatherby is indeed a blown out .375 H&H case and can easily be fireformed from .375 H&H brass. The .378 Weatherby is a larger case, being the .460 Weatherby or .416 Weatherby case necked down to .375. The .378, .416, and .460 Weatherby are all based upon a .416 Rigby case with a belt added to it, and the .375 H&H case will not work for them.
longestrange
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Info so far greatly appreciated.
What started as a typo turned out to be a good thing. The original intent was to ask about fireforming a .375 to a .378, but the actual situation was about rechambering a .375 H&H to .378 and using cheap brass. If it is possible to get .375 RUM velocities from a .375 (not .378) Weatherby, that would be really nice. Obviously, a rechamber that increased headspace would not be possible.
What started as a typo turned out to be a good thing. The original intent was to ask about fireforming a .375 to a .378, but the actual situation was about rechambering a .375 H&H to .378 and using cheap brass. If it is possible to get .375 RUM velocities from a .375 (not .378) Weatherby, that would be really nice. Obviously, a rechamber that increased headspace would not be possible.
You can't fireform .375 H&H to .378 weatherby, they've got different case head sizes and it won't work. You can't even rechamber most .375 H&H rifles to .378 weatherby because the actions physically aren't big enough to handle the huge weatherby case. The only real exception to that is a weatherby MKV action, it's big enough to handle the .378 weatherby and I believe a few were chambered in .375 H&H so those could be rechamered if you enlarge the bolt face too.
Now the .375 weatherby is a different story, it's merely an "improved" version of the H&H with a lot of the body taper blown out and the shoulder fireformed. Since a belted magnum headspaces on the belt instead of the shoulder it's a simple matter of having a gunsmith run a reamer into the H&H chamber and cutting it to weatherby dimensions. As long as he doesn't move the belt forward the headspace remains the same. Since they both headspace on the belt you can fire .375 H&H ammo in a .375 weatherby chamber and it'll work fine. When the brass comes out of the chamber it'll be fireformed to weatherby dimensions.
A .375 weatherby gives quite a bit extra case capacity over the H&H so it's good for about 250 fps more, but it's still not quite got the volume of a .375 RUM so it's not going to be quite as fast loaded to similar pressures. It's still an excellent round and I'd prefer it to the RUM. There comes a point with me where the recoil exceeds my comfort zone and I although I haven't fired a .375 RUM I expect it's past that level.
Now the .375 weatherby is a different story, it's merely an "improved" version of the H&H with a lot of the body taper blown out and the shoulder fireformed. Since a belted magnum headspaces on the belt instead of the shoulder it's a simple matter of having a gunsmith run a reamer into the H&H chamber and cutting it to weatherby dimensions. As long as he doesn't move the belt forward the headspace remains the same. Since they both headspace on the belt you can fire .375 H&H ammo in a .375 weatherby chamber and it'll work fine. When the brass comes out of the chamber it'll be fireformed to weatherby dimensions.
A .375 weatherby gives quite a bit extra case capacity over the H&H so it's good for about 250 fps more, but it's still not quite got the volume of a .375 RUM so it's not going to be quite as fast loaded to similar pressures. It's still an excellent round and I'd prefer it to the RUM. There comes a point with me where the recoil exceeds my comfort zone and I although I haven't fired a .375 RUM I expect it's past that level.
MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
Garycrow,
Although what you say about the case capacity of the RUM case is true, my own testing showed only a 20-30fps difference between it and the 375 Weatherby with factory ammo, I was surprised to say the least. We shot them side by side over the same chrony and the RUM was a LOT slower than I expected, even the owner of the rifle was totally surprised.
With my handloads and a max charge, I have been able to consistently achieve 2850fps with 300gr Woodleigh PP's, which is right up at listed RUM velocities in most loading manuals.
I think this is due to the fact that the Weatherby case seems to be quite efficient in powder to velocity ratio, which I noted at the get go when I first started loading for it, this seems to stem from the 1/2" of freebore, where the velocity rises quite well and pressure seems to be quite linear with no excessive pressure excursions.
I agree, the recoil is quite a step up from the standard H+H round, it's a lot sharper and gets your attention, but is not excessive, it's not as harsh as my 458Lott!
Cheers.
gun)
Although what you say about the case capacity of the RUM case is true, my own testing showed only a 20-30fps difference between it and the 375 Weatherby with factory ammo, I was surprised to say the least. We shot them side by side over the same chrony and the RUM was a LOT slower than I expected, even the owner of the rifle was totally surprised.
With my handloads and a max charge, I have been able to consistently achieve 2850fps with 300gr Woodleigh PP's, which is right up at listed RUM velocities in most loading manuals.
I think this is due to the fact that the Weatherby case seems to be quite efficient in powder to velocity ratio, which I noted at the get go when I first started loading for it, this seems to stem from the 1/2" of freebore, where the velocity rises quite well and pressure seems to be quite linear with no excessive pressure excursions.
I agree, the recoil is quite a step up from the standard H+H round, it's a lot sharper and gets your attention, but is not excessive, it's not as harsh as my 458Lott!
Cheers.
gun)
Kennibear
Well-Known Member
The order of case capacity is: H&H, Ruger, 375 Weatherby, RUM, 378 Weatherby.
One parameter that is not measurable for most shooters is pressure. Most hand loads are high pressure and most factory loads are far from it. Most recent experience with factory loads (most of my guns never see factory ammo) is with a friend's 7mm RemMag. Hornady Superformance 162 gr SST was closest to claimed velocity (-22 fps and the barrel was 2" shorter than factory) and the Remington Corelock was the least (2700fps vs. 3000fps claimed). Factory ammo not performing up to par is S.O.P. That's why I recommend to beginners to get a chronograph as their first purchase. Apples to apples has both cartridges at the same pressure.
When two same caliber cartridges are compared the higher capacity case wins. Short fat cases don't deliver higher velocities (as proved by P.O.Ackley) but they are MUCH more consistent. Fat cases deliver very low shot to shot variations. But Weatherby's claim of venturi effect has never been proven. It is based on the PMVF wildcats of the 30's.
Start pouring powder into both the RUM and 375 Weatherby and when the primers start cratering the RUM will be burning more powder and developing more velocity. To really do this right you would use the same barrel and rechamber.
Just the history of wildcaters and reloaders pushing the limits speaking here. If there was a magical case shape someone would have found it and the ammo companies would have made them rich with licensing fees.
KB
One parameter that is not measurable for most shooters is pressure. Most hand loads are high pressure and most factory loads are far from it. Most recent experience with factory loads (most of my guns never see factory ammo) is with a friend's 7mm RemMag. Hornady Superformance 162 gr SST was closest to claimed velocity (-22 fps and the barrel was 2" shorter than factory) and the Remington Corelock was the least (2700fps vs. 3000fps claimed). Factory ammo not performing up to par is S.O.P. That's why I recommend to beginners to get a chronograph as their first purchase. Apples to apples has both cartridges at the same pressure.
When two same caliber cartridges are compared the higher capacity case wins. Short fat cases don't deliver higher velocities (as proved by P.O.Ackley) but they are MUCH more consistent. Fat cases deliver very low shot to shot variations. But Weatherby's claim of venturi effect has never been proven. It is based on the PMVF wildcats of the 30's.
Start pouring powder into both the RUM and 375 Weatherby and when the primers start cratering the RUM will be burning more powder and developing more velocity. To really do this right you would use the same barrel and rechamber.
Just the history of wildcaters and reloaders pushing the limits speaking here. If there was a magical case shape someone would have found it and the ammo companies would have made them rich with licensing fees.
KB
longestrange
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Looking at the .375 Weatherby, it appears to have a shorter neck and presumably more freebore than the H&H. Will this have an effect on accuracy and/or velocity?
