375 cal barrel twist and projectiles?

[groper]

Man this twist/projectile thing is evolving on a daily basis!...

I might just sit on the fence and wait this one out for a while before jumping into the 375 cal...

I think I have almost decided on a 338 version...

claw, as ive said before, this evolution is only concerning the super long bullets... theres nothing stopping you or anyone else from doing a 375cal right now! simply use 355gr bullets which already have a higher BC than most 338cal offerings and delivers more energy downrange, it is ALREADY superior. These super long bullets will only put the 375 EVEN FURTHER in front.

If you build a 338, what will you feed it? 300gr SMK is about your only choice for ELR hunting, everything else has poor BC or doesnt expand properly. The bergers dont work from cheytac cases, too much velocity and they are bird shot...

If you build a 375, then you have the 350gr SMK. So your options are the same really... except your barrel will last longer and youll have more energy with a 375...

The other thing with the gain twist barrels, you wont be able to get one for a year or so from bartlein unless you get preferential treatment, so this puts being able to use these flash new bullets a long way off for most of us anyway...

 

[kellyzier]

claw, as ive said before, this evolution is only concerning the super long bullets... theres nothing stopping you or anyone else from doing a 375cal right now! simply use 355gr bullets which already have a higher BC than most 338cal offerings and delivers more energy downrange, it is ALREADY superior. These super long bullets will only put the 375 EVEN FURTHER in front.

If you build a 338, what will you feed it? 300gr SMK is about your only choice for ELR hunting, everything else has poor BC or doesnt expand properly. The bergers dont work from cheytac cases, too much velocity and they are bird shot...

If you build a 375, then you have the 350gr SMK. So your options are the same really... except your barrel will last longer and youll have more energy with a 375...

The other thing with the gain twist barrels, you wont be able to get one for a year or so from bartlein unless you get preferential treatment, so this puts being able to use these flash new bullets a long way off for most of us anyway...

Groper is right on the money....A 1---10 twist in a 375 snipe tac or allan mag will shoot most all of the high bc bullets,,,lehighs,,,preditors,,,smks,,,,etc...My barrel just got cut yesterday to 1---10, and I will be shooting it very shortly.

My second test barrel is a blank ready to be cut when Dave V has finished his testing on the 414 solid. If his tests are bad, then it gets cut to 1---10 and again I will be shooting the lehighs, smk's, preditors again. But this time in the 375 VM with speeds that are just flat out scary.

However, if his tests are postitive,,,baby stand back...You wont need a gain twist...more than likely the 1--8 will work and then you will have a gun with a 414 gr solid that shoots flatter and dopes the wind better than anything on this planet...Whoaaaaaaaaa

cheers
zman

 

[the claw]

claw, as ive said before, this evolution is only concerning the super long bullets... theres nothing stopping you or anyone else from doing a 375cal right now! simply use 355gr bullets which already have a higher BC than most 338cal offerings and delivers more energy downrange, it is ALREADY superior. These super long bullets will only put the 375 EVEN FURTHER in front.

If you build a 338, what will you feed it? 300gr SMK is about your only choice for ELR hunting, everything else has poor BC or doesnt expand properly. The bergers dont work from cheytac cases, too much velocity and they are bird shot...

If you build a 375, then you have the 350gr SMK. So your options are the same really... except your barrel will last longer and youll have more energy with a 375...

The other thing with the gain twist barrels, you wont be able to get one for a year or so from bartlein unless you get preferential treatment, so this puts being able to use these flash new bullets a long way off for most of us anyway...

**** groper! I thought I had decided on the 338... I would most likely use the SMK in either case at the moment as they are the most readily available... Otherwise the Rocky Mountain is an option. I think a 1 in 10 twist would be what I would spec for either a 338 or 375...

The only thing holding me back on the 375 (other than what twist etc) is the wait for a barrel... I like things now! And with a 338 I can get a True Flite in a few weeks, compared to months for a 375...

 

[Augustus]

Groper, I am hearing there are other sources coming on-line for the varible gain twist barrels. Delivery times should be around two months. I know you can hear everything but money rattlin and bacon fryin, but this come pretty straight. We shall see. Also, the ZA 369 gr. 6 cal. and some of the bullets from GS, Predator, and others will work from constant twists barrels. I have only personally tested the ZA 369 6 cal, it works nice out of the Lawton 8 twist.

 

[groper]

**** groper! I thought I had decided on the 338... I would most likely use the SMK in either case at the moment as they are the most readily available... Otherwise the Rocky Mountain is an option. I think a 1 in 10 twist would be what I would spec for either a 338 or 375...

The only thing holding me back on the 375 (other than what twist etc) is the wait for a barrel... I like things now! And with a 338 I can get a True Flite in a few weeks, compared to months for a 375...

in that case, if it were me, id go ahead with the 338 barrel from truflite and start shootin... then after about 3 months when your barrel is shot out, your shiney new one from the USA will be there ready to install in .375cal... too easy ay?

Zman, im willing to bet that a 414gr 7cal bullet will not stabilize in a straight 8 twist. Sorry isnt gonna happen mate

Thanks for the head up, augustus, i sure as hell hope you are hearing the truth, no matter if it came from talking greenbacks or flying bacon... it stands to reason tho, technology is advancing and eventually people upgrade their machine shops when they spot an opportunity.

 

[kellyzier]

in that case, if it were me, id go ahead with the 338 barrel from truflite and start shootin... then after about 3 months when your barrel is shot out, your shiney new one from the USA will be there ready to install in .375cal... too easy ay?

Zman, im willing to bet that a 414gr 7cal bullet will not stabilize in a straight 8 twist. Sorry isnt gonna happen mate

Thanks for the head up, augustus, i sure as hell hope you are hearing the truth, no matter if it came from talking greenbacks or flying bacon... it stands to reason tho, technology is advancing and eventually people upgrade their machine shops when they spot an opportunity.

I will take that bet.....(I hope you're reading this Anthony),,,,,LOL...No really, I have faith that GS has made the modification to the 414 and this time it will work in the standard 1---8.......You have to know, that Dave's first tests initially were outstanding. The 414 shot one hole groups at 100 yards in the 375...As Dave increased the loads and started to exceed 2900 fps, the bullet had issues at longer ranges....

Im just not sure this time at what speed the bullet will de-stabilize. Nobody knows and Im not gonna guess. It will need to stablize to at least 3000 fps for the snipe tac and 3000 is nor that far from it's initial test.

The real question is,... Will the bullet stabilize with the speeds (3200 fps) that the VM can produce. This is the 64K dollar question....Time will tell

cheers
zman

 

[groper]

i know this zman, what i should have said is that i bet they will not REMAIN stable thru their entire supersonic trajectory at maximum cheytac case pressures from an 8 twist... hope you dont hold that against me

 

[kellyzier]

i know this zman, what i should have said is that i bet they will not REMAIN stable thru their entire supersonic trajectory at maximum cheytac case pressures from an 8 twist... hope you dont hold that against me

No problemo...we will wait and see

 

[the claw]

in that case, if it were me, id go ahead with the 338 barrel from truflite and start shootin... then after about 3 months when your barrel is shot out, your shiney new one from the USA will be there ready to install in .375cal... too easy ay?

Great minds think alike ah?

So, if I went with a 338 Snipetac, can I use the same dies for a 375ST (assuming I get a bushing die set)?

 

[groper]

You would have to ask dave veirs on that one, im not sure what options he can do for you with the dies... the snipetac is his creation and you would have to get dies and a reamer from him. Ask truflite what reamers they have, might be easier to do whatever reamer they have (if they have one at all) which maybe a straight 338 cheytac instead of the improved version.

 

[kellyzier]

You would have to ask dave veirs on that one, im not sure what options he can do for you with the dies... the snipetac is his creation and you would have to get dies and a reamer from him. Ask truflite what reamers they have, might be easier to do whatever reamer they have (if they have one at all) which maybe a straight 338 cheytac instead of the improved version.

If you go with the 375 snipe tac, I can give you a deal on the reamers and (go gage). Don't forget if you go with the 338, you will have to be doing another step in the reloading process to neck them down. Although, I think you can pay a bit extra from Dave and get them pre-formed.

Also, regardless of what cal you go with, get ahold of Bobby Lawton now and get your order in for the Lawton 8000, he's got it on sale now (discounted 200 bucks) to $1,000. I do like my BAT action cause its got a built in 40 moa rail, but they take way too long to make. Lawton's lead times are much better. You will need a 40 moa rail, don't forget.

Also check out the manners stocks, the T2 and T3's can get down to near 2.5 pounds when they are carbon fiberd and they can handle the big chey tac actions. I personally like the new T2's, the grip is better for long range accuaracy.

And lastly, If I were to do it all over again, I would not build the snipe tac or allan mag..I would build the new Viersco Mag. It fits with all the parts we just mentioned, you can get it to a good hunting weight in the 10-12 lb range if you use carbon fiber barrels. Im not sure why a guy would want this, I pack a 15 lb gun all over and have no problem with it though.

And the speed with the new VM will out pace anything out there...

my .02 cents
got to go make some $$

zman

 

[BobbyL]

Ok guys..... There will never be a stable version of the 7 cal bullet. lets face the facts here. Aug may have the 6.5 working right now but as he said there was only 3 bullets left to test and non of them went on paper. It dont matter to me untill that little fact has been proven. Nothing that long can ever have a bc that high and work all the way to transonic. Cheytac proved this a long time ago when developing the Lost River bullet and untill someone makes a amazing breakthough there will never be a bullet that heavy thats a VLD shape. It is great that there are working out the kinks and getting stuff moving along but still not gonna move fast enough for me to want to jump on doing any of this except specifically for testing. I would never start to put a projo in the air headed towards a animal until everybody know these things work. The twist rates you guys are getting into are a dangerous game and i think a much much unneeded step. I would love to see this stuff work and wish ya the best of luck.... Now its variable gain twist? What in the hell is this coming to? Sorry to say it all seems like a show here. But the way things are falling GS may have a viable bullet for the 8 twist barrel and should be plenty enough for now....


bobby.

 

[kellyzier]

Ok guys..... There will never be a stable version of the 7 cal bullet. lets face the facts here. Aug may have the 6.5 working right now but as he said there was only 3 bullets left to test and non of them went on paper. It dont matter to me untill that little fact has been proven. Nothing that long can ever have a bc that high and work all the way to transonic. Cheytac proved this a long time ago when developing the Lost River bullet and untill someone makes a amazing breakthough there will never be a bullet that heavy thats a VLD shape. It is great that there are working out the kinks and getting stuff moving along but still not gonna move fast enough for me to want to jump on doing any of this except specifically for testing. I would never start to put a projo in the air headed towards a animal until everybody know these things work. The twist rates you guys are getting into are a dangerous game and i think a much much unneeded step. I would love to see this stuff work and wish ya the best of luck.... Now its variable gain twist? What in the hell is this coming to? Sorry to say it all seems like a show here. But the way things are falling GS may have a viable bullet for the 8 twist barrel and should be plenty enough for now....


bobby.

Bobbby, you need to clairify here...You're not talking about the 1--8 twist being dangerous???

I take it you're talking about the gain twist experiements these guys are doing right??? No offense guys, but I know that most smiths I talk to think the gain twists are taboo. I personally would not invest any money today on gain twists, when I know the standard twists are taking most of the new bullets to places we've never been and these extended distance are just fine for me.

zman

 

[Augustus]

I am pretty sure the ZA seven cal is going to be stable out of a 5.5 exit twist at least to 3000 FPS, unfortunateley it will be some time before I can test them due to lag time on barrels right now. I have never stated these bullets must have gain twist barrels. A constant 5.5 may work, its never been tried so who knows. My barrel is not a variable twist , the rate is linear and it works fine.

The three shots I took were not scattered all over the place, I left out the details of the group because it was only three shots and I dont believe anyone should advertise accuracy potential of a system based on a limited sample. I can tell you it was much better than I expected and had you been standing in the targets place you would be needing the services of an undertaker. The 1020 yd group was posted because I am confident it is repeatable due to its performance at 700-900 yds.

The transonic stability of the 6.5 and 7 cals is still an unknown, I will answer this question in the case of the 6.5 within a couple of wks.

You are correct in stating all of the stuff I have been posting is experimental. If you read what I have posted over the last 1 1/2 yrs you will find on numerous occassions I have urged restraint to people wanting to buy barrels and bullets. I am doing this testing on my own with no expectation of returns or favors from anyone. So again, I am not advocating that anyone buy gain twist barrels or banded bullets, I am simply shooting these things and sharing what I found out.

I have also posted that the ZA 6 cal works really nice from the Lawton 8 twist standard bore. Word to the wise, be careful when using the word NEVER and ALWAYS, they have a nasty habit of biting your *** in front of folks. Many stellar reputations have been wrecked due to the overuse of those two little words.