375 cal barrel twist and projectiles?

[kellyzier]

Kellyzier,

Thanks for the info... I don't need anymore choices, struggling to decide now!...

Are you going to use the barrel that you had for your 375 ST or a faster twist?

Cheers.

Chase1, Nitriding is a thermochemical process,,,it's complicated and basic at the same time. At the end of the process.. The result is markedly improved surface properties on ferrous metal parts while maintaining dimensional and shape stability. The layers you get are not even measureable with typical instruments, however Im guessing with a microscope you can see it or measure it at the micron level. The guys at Lawton have tried before and after measurments and they don't show up.

In the end I hear it does a few things...1. it speeds up your bullet, 2. it protects the barrel for longer barrel life and at the same time you don't have to clean your barrel as much and 3. They say it stiffins your barrel. The guys at Lawton (and others) have been doing this for sometime now and in the next few weeks they will have the results of thier tests that sound promising.
You can go to the web site and read about it.....................What is Black Nitriding?

zman

 

[kellyzier]

Kellyzier,

Thanks for the info... I don't need anymore choices, struggling to decide now!...

Are you going to use the barrel that you had for your 375 ST or a faster twist?

Cheers.

Claw, good question....Now that I have most of the parts for the 375 Snipe Tac, I have created a bit of a problem for myself cause I want to change over to the 375 VM. I need to talk to dave viers and find out if most of my parts will work. I have a BAT action, not sure if this will work for the VM. I know that if I had a Lawton 8000 it would work on the VM.

To answer your question, if most of my parts fit, I have actually two barrels. One 375 barrel just got cut to 1--10. The other barrel is a blank waiting to be cut as soon as I hear more about the new GS 414 that is being tested by Dave viers.

I may just start from scratch (only on the barrel) with the new 375 VM. If I do this, I will put both new 375 barrels up for sale. If I go with the 375 VM, I will also have brand new reamers for sale for the 375 snipe tac.

I will tell you that I have spent countless hours talking to gunmakers, and their customers on the 375 cal. And 90% of my energy has been devoted to the proper twist. Many guys (some on this site) have regretably bought the wrong twist for the 375. The 375 bullets are so new, it's hard to keep up. So either you wait a year for better test results or you roll the dice and build a barrel now. I prefer not to wait a year, I want to shoot now.

There are lots of ideas about twists for the 375. I dont want to even go there. Basically, the safe bet is the 1--10 twist. Two gunsmiths that build alot of big guns for folks (dave viers & Kirby allan) pretty much agree that the safe bet is the 1---10 twist for the 375. This twist will shoot pretty much anything out there..(preditors, GS, ZA, Lehigh, SMK, hooker, Rky mtn), it wont shoot the real long solids that ZA and GS produce.

And not to be confusing, but my second barrel was not cut because of what Dave viers is doing now with the new GS 414. I have kept pretty close contact with Dave on his first go around with this very long solid. The first go around produced less than stellar results.

If the next go around did not work, I was simply going to go with my 1--10 twist that was already cut. HOWEVER, there is a glimmer of hope with the 414 gr, hence my other barrel just waiting to be cut.

If Daves range tests are promising we will have a very long solid that shoots 3200 fps (in the 375 VM) with a BC of over 1.25 in the VM. This bullet will hit the transonic barrier at ..ready for this.....3,500 yards. For me, the agony of waiting and energy spent will be well worth the wait.

And lastly, the question now is,,,,what twist will stabilize the GS 414. Daves first test was with a 1--8. GS took that bullet back and modified it so it would stabilize at higher speeds. GS thinks it will stabilize up to a 1--9. My guess is that it's going to need at least the 1--8. Regardless, I think we are very close.
Test results should be here in the next few weeks.

c ya
zman

 

[japple]

Man you are making me want a .375 vm bad!! LOL. I am thinking defiance action, russo A5 stock. Broughton 1-8 barrel.

 

[kellyzier]

Man you are making me want a .375 vm bad!! LOL. I am thinking defiance action, russo A5 stock. Broughton 1-8 barrel.

For me, the 375 VM is a win win...if the GS 414's don't pan out, then I can always shoot the less BC smk's, preditors, lehigh's etc....By the time I wear out the barrel, (next year) I'm sure they will have refined the 414's. But Im really hoping this second go around for the 414's pan out. Im crossing my fingers.

On paper this VM w/ the 414gr bullet at 3,000 yards has (similar) energy and speed that my 338 edge has at 1,800 yards (roughly). When you do some comparisions with the Xbal, it's really scary.

 

[kellyzier]

Man you are making me want a .375 vm bad!! LOL. I am thinking defiance action, russo A5 stock. Broughton 1-8 barrel.

Also on the 1--8 twist issue,,,Im still waiting for Daves tests to be completed before I pull the trigger on the twist....Im hoping that the 8 twist will work...

cheers,
zman

 

[kellyzier]

Hi all,

I've been a bit of a lurker on here for years now, thought it was time to come out of the closet and ask a question...!

I am thinking of building a 375 Cheytac, or a varient of this such as an Allen Magnum. My question is, what is the current thinking on the correct barrel twist for available hunting projectiles? What is out there as viable hunting projectiles for the 375 other than the 350gr SMK? (high BC projectiles that is).

Those of you that have a 375 CT, AM, or similar, what weight is your rifle? How is (percieved) recoil with your rifle? I am trying to decide what weight to aim to build, my current thinking is 15-18lb bare, is this too light? I will be using a single shot Barnard action, and probably a 32 inch barrel.

Any other considerations, pearls of wisdom would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Claw,
I just got an email from Dave Viers,,He doesn't think my BAT action that was intended for the 375 snipe tac will work on the new 375VM.

Consequently, Im going to be selling it. The stock is a manners T3, 90% carbon fiber designed for light weight (2.5 puonds), BAT action single fed,,,,,32 inch brux barrel 1--10 twist, tapers to .920 at the muzzle,,,,never used reamer for the snipe tac,,I can sell it in parts or I can have my smith assemble it. If he assembles it, I will break it as well. The entire gun should come in at just under 16 pounds (this includes scope and bipod).

If you want the 338 snipe tac,, this package would work, less the barrel. You cuold order another 338 barrel and you'd have the 338 snipe tac.

Let me know if you are at all interested. If not, I will just assemble it as a 375 and sell it.

zman

 

[groper]

in case your wondering claw, an FFL export dealer will export a firearm from the states at a cost of about $500USD + the actual freight cost. This is for the export permit and the paperwork to tranfer from the seller etc... you will certainly need this for an action, im not so sure about uncut barrels and stocks tho.

 

[Chas1]

zman, thanks for responding and the education. Do you know if H&M will be posting on their website the results as I'd really like to read about it?

 

[kellyzier]

zman, thanks for responding and the education. Do you know if H&M will be posting on their website the results as I'd really like to read about it?

No I dont think they will...However, you may see it posted here....If not, check in with me in a few weeks...I will be checking with Bobby on the results...Im pretty sure the results will be good based on what I have already heard from Lawton.

cheers,
zman

 

[groper]

Zman, you are the eternal optimist... putting your faith in bullets that dont fly yet, chamberings that dont exist yet or havnt been fully tested, barrels that use new treatments again that have not been fully tested or proven to do what they claim, confidence in being able to get components to feed these exotic cartridges, mostly from overseas...

You need to remember that all this information is coming from the people with a vested interest in making money from these new technologies and systems. I would advise caution, and save your money till the systems are proven, because as of right now, the systems you refer are NOT working.

I sure as hell HOPE the people involved DO succeed, but i suspect they have a long way to go. As for us consumers out there, it will be a LONG time before these systems are proven and worth investing in.

 

[snake]

lot of good info guys! im interested in a hotter .375 than my current RUM 375 but won't make the jump to something else till theres a few years of good reviews and testing on the other .375 versions or even the .408/.416 stuff.

its all changing so fast! Im only 28 now and can't even imagine the improvements and developements that are in store for all of us in the next decade. tis exciting

 

[kellyzier]

Zman, you are the eternal optimist... putting your faith in bullets that dont fly yet, chamberings that dont exist yet or havnt been fully tested, barrels that use new treatments again that have not been fully tested or proven to do what they claim, confidence in being able to get components to feed these exotic cartridges, mostly from overseas...

You need to remember that all this information is coming from the people with a vested interest in making money from these new technologies and systems. I would advise caution, and save your money till the systems are proven, because as of right now, the systems you refer are NOT working.

I sure as hell HOPE the people involved DO succeed, but i suspect they have a long way to go. As for us consumers out there, it will be a LONG time before these systems are proven and worth investing in.

Well, there are a few guys I trust on this site...And Dave Viers is one of them. He's developing the VM and he's taking orders for guns that shoot the 350 smk ( proven bullet). He won't take orders for the same cal that shoots the longer solids until he's validated this himself.

My worse case scenario, I have to go with the 350 smk's in the VM, which is fine. And you are right, I am very optimistic. If in a short amount of time, Dave likes what he sees in the longer solids, then that's even better. If the tests don't even happen, then...it's back to the 350's. The 350's will shoot just fine in the VM and I will just have to settle (for the time being).

I really do appreciate your concerne. Most of my friends can't afford to play in the same field Im playing in. Most of them are lucky their wives let them get their first night force. But then again, most of my friends have a ton of hobbies and they spend a boat load on them. I have few hobbies and long range is not just a hobbie for me,,its a PASSION.

The unproven cartridge thing...well, its not unproven...Daves developed this cartridge and me and a few other guys will be the FIRST owners. Someones got to go first. Again, it's a trust thing for me. In life there are givers and takers...The takers have streets named after them...ONE WAY....When I meet a giver, I tend to put a ton of trust in them...Dave Viers is one of those people.

The barrel treatment issue...Again, its about trust....Bobby Lawton has nothing to gain by encouraging me to use Nitriding...In fact, he and other smiths have everything to gain by letting me burn up barrels, heck he gets to rebarrel when guys burn through them. Bobby has had many customers send the barrels away (fast burners like the 338 ST) to have the nitriding process done. The customers like you and I have been comming back with stunning results, so they are taking note and they are doing testing over the next few weeks and like Dave viers on the gs 414, Im simply tuned in and waiting.

Out of the three main issues you spoke about, I would say that the only one that puts me into the "eternal optimist" catagory is the unproven bullet catagory you mentioned. But I got to tell ya,,, there are plenty of guys out there like me hearing and waiting...heck look at the freaking 300 berger...OMG,,They spoke about it for years and everyone was buzzing about it for ever and then what...Yep it's back to the drawing board. So yep,,Id say Im pretty optimistic about new bullets. The good news is...There will always be other bullets if one doesnt pan out...

zman

 

[groper]

exactly zman, so why worry about the 7cal solid projectiles that dont fly yet, when you can already shoot the 350gr classes of bullets with a BC of circa .95 accurately out to stupid distances NOW in a system that works? by your own admission, you want to shoot now... as i do... however it seems the things you are doing wont have you shooting for some time yet...

Its not like a 375 snipetac shooting a GScustom 355gr SP bullet, both already proven, is lacking in performance??? this system is supersonic to 3k are they not? you sound like my missus, always wanting MORE...

So if you seek a system that out performs the above system, my question is do you have the rest of the equipment needed to make full use of a 3.5k system? Like a vector IV rangefinder for example? And have you looked into how your optics will be able to handle the elevation required? Like which scope and xMOA base will give you enough elevation for 3.5km shots?

 

[kellyzier]

exactly zman, so why worry about the 7cal solid projectiles that dont fly yet, when you can already shoot the 350gr classes of bullets with a BC of circa .95 accurately out to stupid distances NOW in a system that works? by your own admission, you want to shoot now... as i do... however it seems the things you are doing wont have you shooting for some time yet...

Its not like a 375 snipetac shooting a GScustom 355gr SP bullet, both already proven, is lacking in performance??? this system is supersonic to 3k are they not? you sound like my missus, always wanting MORE...

So if you seek a system that out performs the above system, my question is do you have the rest of the equipment needed to make full use of a 3.5k system? Like a vector IV rangefinder for example? And have you looked into how your optics will be able to handle the elevation required? Like which scope and xMOA base will give you enough elevation for 3.5km shots?

You are right on the money....My first barrel is already cut by Brux to 1--10...I can shoot the 350 smk's, lehigh's, Preditors, GS etc....Like most I will start out with the SMK as they will be the easiest to tune.

On the scope issue, I have a 5.5x22 NF on my edge, but this time I got a 8.5x32 for the big gun. Yes, i know it eats up moa with only 65 minutes on it, but I got a 40 moa rail this time on the BAT and the chey tac is flatter than my edge.

And lastly on the range finder issue...Im getting the Vectronix PRLF10 from one of thier distys, just trying to work up the nerve to send them $3,700 ..OUCH!!!!

c ay
zman