I disagree on this one. You are not short range limited with a 416. I took a black Wildebeest at 475 yds with my Rigby in Tanzania - 1 and done. My ph was flabbergasted! So - I'm still Pro-416 Rem Mag on this one. Big bears are tough and stout - and you don't want to be tracking a wounded one in the thick stuff.
338 or 375 or 416?
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I disagree on this one. You are not short range limited with a 416. I took a black Wildebeest at 475 yds with my Rigby in Tanzania - 1 and done. My ph was flabbergasted! So - I'm still Pro-416 Rem Mag on this one. Big bears are tough and stout - and you don't want to be tracking a wounded one in the thick stuff.
Marky_mark
Well-Known Member
Exactly lol
I know gunwerks is selling their new dg rifle and say its good to 800 yards
Personally I would pull that trigger with a lot more confidence if it was 338 over my 416
I took my 300 win with 200 gr a frames to kamchatka for brown bears and moose a couple years ago. Went in the fall and didnt see a big enough bear to take but it worked well on a moose.
Stiltsville
Banned
Have a friend who killed three LARGE bears (Brown, Griz and Black) with a 60 pound recurve and hand sharpened broadheads. One shot each, no charges or drama.
Were I ever rich enough to afford a Brown hunt and to end with mounts ($30,000)
I'd buy a 375 H&H Blaser. Fastest cycle hand operated rifle with the best feeding proven dangerous game cartridge. The rifle is chump change compared to other costs. https://www.gunsinternational.com/g.../blaser-r93--375-h-h-mag.cfm?gun_id=101350716
Magazine would carry Barnes VOR-TEX 300 gr ammo and I'd try for a shoulder shot.
Were I ever rich enough to afford a Brown hunt and to end with mounts ($30,000)
I'd buy a 375 H&H Blaser. Fastest cycle hand operated rifle with the best feeding proven dangerous game cartridge. The rifle is chump change compared to other costs. https://www.gunsinternational.com/g.../blaser-r93--375-h-h-mag.cfm?gun_id=101350716
Magazine would carry Barnes VOR-TEX 300 gr ammo and I'd try for a shoulder shot.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, Bigger is better when hunting something that would love to have you for dinner.
In a real tough situation, what I would want would be a large bore with lots of energy and the ability to transfer it to the game. any of the listed cartridges will kill a big bear, the important thing is how fast will it drop them. In some cases you may only have feet to work with.
My choice would start at 416 and go from there. The 416's are manageable but have plenty of knockdown. plus, unlike the really big dangerous game cartridges, they are good for hundreds of yards of distance if needed. My 416 Buff (Based on a 375 Rum Case) pushes a 400 grain at 2700 ft/sec for over 6400 ft/lbs of muzzle energy. The 416 Weatherby will be near 2900 ft/sec.
With the 350 grain A frame, it will have the trajectory if a 270 Winchester to 500 yards. There are plenty other rifle to chose from, but I would start at 416 caliber and go up. There is no "To" big as far as I am concerned, so it becomes a matter of choice that needs to be considered for the worst case scenario. better safe than sorry.
J E CUSTOM
In a real tough situation, what I would want would be a large bore with lots of energy and the ability to transfer it to the game. any of the listed cartridges will kill a big bear, the important thing is how fast will it drop them. In some cases you may only have feet to work with.
My choice would start at 416 and go from there. The 416's are manageable but have plenty of knockdown. plus, unlike the really big dangerous game cartridges, they are good for hundreds of yards of distance if needed. My 416 Buff (Based on a 375 Rum Case) pushes a 400 grain at 2700 ft/sec for over 6400 ft/lbs of muzzle energy. The 416 Weatherby will be near 2900 ft/sec.
With the 350 grain A frame, it will have the trajectory if a 270 Winchester to 500 yards. There are plenty other rifle to chose from, but I would start at 416 caliber and go up. There is no "To" big as far as I am concerned, so it becomes a matter of choice that needs to be considered for the worst case scenario. better safe than sorry.
J E CUSTOM
Would you be willing to share your load data for the 260 Hammer out of your Edge?
Simplest is best. Common and available is best. Being able to handle the recoil without needing a muzzle-brake is best. So my vote is .338 Win Mag with 250gr partition or .375 H&H w/either the 260gr or 300gr partition.
In a 9 to10lb rifle (fully loaded and scoped), the recoil is manageable and the rifle will still be carry-able. And if you lose your ammo, someone in camp will have some or the nearest town or outpost will have some. It's a big bear, but they've been killed with far lesser cartridges reliably for many years. These two will give you plenty of margin for error and still do the deed.
In a 9 to10lb rifle (fully loaded and scoped), the recoil is manageable and the rifle will still be carry-able. And if you lose your ammo, someone in camp will have some or the nearest town or outpost will have some. It's a big bear, but they've been killed with far lesser cartridges reliably for many years. These two will give you plenty of margin for error and still do the deed.
416 Rigby. I would not worry about the "ignition" problems discussed earlier. Those comments were from the cordite era. Modern powders and magnum primers have made those issues obsolete. Modern Rigby rifles can be reloaded to the point you (or certainly me) can't stand the recoil (almost 416 WBY levels). I have used Woodleigh 400 grain solids and Barnes 400 grain triple shocks with great success.Solids in the bottom of the magazine ant triple shocks on top. The Barnes has made 250 yard shots withers. The Trajectory is very similar to a 30-06. The Rigby is a true stopping caliber if you end up in the willows. As previously stated check with your guide. He like you will be first on the scene of the catastrophe if things go wrong. Truly dangerous game hunting is always best with the largest caliber you can shoot well.
MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
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Thanks to all.
Firstly, regarding recoil, I can handle all of these rifles without issue. I shoot BGRC here in Australia regularly. I also have rifles in 458 Lott, 404 Jeffrey & have had a 505 Gibbs.
My previous hunting for bears involved a Win Model 70 in 338WM with 275gr Semi Spitzer by Speer which are bonded, my guide was hesitant using this, he, and his daughter were not fans due to poor shot placement by previous hunters. I actually asked Phil Shoemaker about this combo prior to me going, he said it would work with the right shot placement.
That rifle dispatched my bear as if poleaxed.
They were surprised. The bear didn't twitch.
My current rifle list/weights run like this:
Win Model 70 EW 338WM, Bushnell 3-9x40 weighs 8lbs loaded/sling (Lightest rifle in the list)
Rem 700 Sendero II 338Edge, Leupold VX-III 6.5-20x50, weighs 12.5lbs sling/bi-pod.
Win Model 70 Classic S/S 375 Weatherby, Bushnell 2-7x32, weighs 10.5lbs loaded/sling.
CZ 550 Safari Magnum 416 Rigby, Leupold 1-5x24 detachable scope, weighs 9lbs loaded/sling; weighs 9.75lbs with scope/loaded.
The bullets listed have had no trouble taking down Water buff here, I have complete confidence in all of them.
The comments regarding the 338WM being inadequate is unfounded today, with powders available, getting a 225gr @ 2900fps or 250gr @ 2775fps is not difficult and is ample to bring down a large bear.
My own take on things is this; the 338WM is the lightest and fastest rifle I have for the thick stuff, closely followed by the 375 Bee, although this rifle is barrel heavy, it swings quite steadily.
The 338 Edge is very heavy for a stalking rifle, have packed it in rather than carry/stalked with it so far, I usually set up over game trails and shoot from distance with it.
The 375 Bee is an ideal African safari rifle using sticks, the barrel heavy balance makes stocks very stable. This would be ideal for open country, but I don't think this hunt will have much of that.
The 416 Rigby makes sense to me due to it's stopping power, and no, I do not believe the 416RM is a better round due to pressure issues. I have actually had both, the RM was sent down the road cuz it was not as easy to get 2400fps with a 410gr pill as it was to get over 2500fps with the Rigby. Also, the Rigby has never had a feeding or extraction issue, while the 416RM would get dents on the shoulder from not feeding well and the cases would hang up going into the feed ramp.
Anyway, that's my take.
I will be taking the 375 Bee for sure, and maybe the 338WM with 250gr Accubonds for the thick stuff just cuz it is fast and light to get quick shots away and feeds like butter.
I will say I prefer CRF rifles when crap hits the fan.
Cheers.
Firstly, regarding recoil, I can handle all of these rifles without issue. I shoot BGRC here in Australia regularly. I also have rifles in 458 Lott, 404 Jeffrey & have had a 505 Gibbs.
My previous hunting for bears involved a Win Model 70 in 338WM with 275gr Semi Spitzer by Speer which are bonded, my guide was hesitant using this, he, and his daughter were not fans due to poor shot placement by previous hunters. I actually asked Phil Shoemaker about this combo prior to me going, he said it would work with the right shot placement.
That rifle dispatched my bear as if poleaxed.
They were surprised. The bear didn't twitch.
My current rifle list/weights run like this:
Win Model 70 EW 338WM, Bushnell 3-9x40 weighs 8lbs loaded/sling (Lightest rifle in the list)
Rem 700 Sendero II 338Edge, Leupold VX-III 6.5-20x50, weighs 12.5lbs sling/bi-pod.
Win Model 70 Classic S/S 375 Weatherby, Bushnell 2-7x32, weighs 10.5lbs loaded/sling.
CZ 550 Safari Magnum 416 Rigby, Leupold 1-5x24 detachable scope, weighs 9lbs loaded/sling; weighs 9.75lbs with scope/loaded.
The bullets listed have had no trouble taking down Water buff here, I have complete confidence in all of them.
The comments regarding the 338WM being inadequate is unfounded today, with powders available, getting a 225gr @ 2900fps or 250gr @ 2775fps is not difficult and is ample to bring down a large bear.
My own take on things is this; the 338WM is the lightest and fastest rifle I have for the thick stuff, closely followed by the 375 Bee, although this rifle is barrel heavy, it swings quite steadily.
The 338 Edge is very heavy for a stalking rifle, have packed it in rather than carry/stalked with it so far, I usually set up over game trails and shoot from distance with it.
The 375 Bee is an ideal African safari rifle using sticks, the barrel heavy balance makes stocks very stable. This would be ideal for open country, but I don't think this hunt will have much of that.
The 416 Rigby makes sense to me due to it's stopping power, and no, I do not believe the 416RM is a better round due to pressure issues. I have actually had both, the RM was sent down the road cuz it was not as easy to get 2400fps with a 410gr pill as it was to get over 2500fps with the Rigby. Also, the Rigby has never had a feeding or extraction issue, while the 416RM would get dents on the shoulder from not feeding well and the cases would hang up going into the feed ramp.
Anyway, that's my take.
I will be taking the 375 Bee for sure, and maybe the 338WM with 250gr Accubonds for the thick stuff just cuz it is fast and light to get quick shots away and feeds like butter.
I will say I prefer CRF rifles when crap hits the fan.
Cheers.
alcesgigas
Well-Known Member
Jeez; all good recommendations here I'd say. I don't hunt griz, but I've had to deal with a couple that behaved badly and more or less gave me no alternative. I hunt with a M70 CRF (1994) and another M70 in 270 (1941). If my conditions were met, the quarry is edible, and I can fetch him/her I'd have no hesitation in using my 270's. But if it's an ugly bear (or moose, moray, or moth for that matter) I use my 375 H&H. Yes it too is a M70 CRF (1995). We needn't be reminded of its birthing in 1915, that one can buy shells everywhere--even California & New York--and that it can be loaded in myriad manner. But the reason I use the 375 (10.5# scope/sling et al) 270s (newer 9# inc. all; old timer 8.5# actual weights) is because I shoot them year around right here off a bench. Point being that the recoil allows me to shoot accurately consistently and have for too many years, well, maybe not too many... Another remains familiarity. I inspect what I expect frequently too. I have handloaded for the 270 since the mid-sixties and have settled on Barnes... But recently I shot 50 rounds of Badland's 270 Super Dozers out of my ELR rifle and found them challenging my favorite target bullets (338 LMAI)... Of all rifles I've ever shot and/or owned the 375 H&H recoil is the slowest--like a light shove--which is a real important point due its proclivity to accuracy. I'd really--really--hate to be in a position where I could own & shoot but one rifle to hunt world wide (I don't and never plan to) it would be my 375 H&H. I could swear I just saw both 270s move...
If I am ever lucky enough to afford to go to Alaska I would take my 35 Whelen and my 400 Whelen. If I was to be hunting in open country I'd take 2 of my 35 Whelens or a 35 Whelen and my 338 Win. Mag. From what I have heard most guides like you to bring at lest a 300 mag. for brown bears, but prefer a 338 or bigger if you can shoot it good. With the powders of today you can get the 35 Whelen to have right at the same muzzle velocity with a 250 gr. bullet as the 338 Win. mag. I don't have a problem with the recoil of the 338 Win. mag. but my 35 an 400 Whelens (witch are stout recoiling especially the 400 with 400gr. bullets) have a shove and not the sharp kick of a magnum. For Kodiak brown bears where shoots are more then likely be close and you want them down fast I'd take my 400 Whelen, with Hornady 400gr. DGX bullets I'm getting 2150fps, and with Swift 400gr. A-Frames I'm getting 2177fps. This is just a head of the old 450/400 witch was the most used all around cartridge in Africa for every thing before the 375 H&H came out. So I would not be concerned with not having enough gun.
This is what I'd do but with what you have and are planning to take I think you will do just fine.
This is what I'd do but with what you have and are planning to take I think you will do just fine.
338 edge with that big velocity sounds like good medicine. Shot placement is always king.
Wolf76
Well-Known Member
I'll share this: H1000 powder, 215m primer, Norma brass, and loaded to COAL 3.992". She's hot, but very accurate. I'm way over 93grs of powder and won't give the exact number for legal reasons. I'm certain N570, retumbo, and RL26 can give me some more speed.
Hunting on Kodiak there is a good chance you are going to be busting a lot of brush so take that into consideration when picking a rifle.
When I hunt down there or other areas where there are big brownies around I take my 416 Taylor. My other choices would be a 375 H&H, 375 Ruger, or a 338 WM at the very least. When thinking about bullets, need something tough that will go through a shoulder.
With all that being said, I know some passionate and very successful hunters that hunt everything "Under the Mid Night Sun" with a 300 WM and Remington Core-Lokts.
When I hunt down there or other areas where there are big brownies around I take my 416 Taylor. My other choices would be a 375 H&H, 375 Ruger, or a 338 WM at the very least. When thinking about bullets, need something tough that will go through a shoulder.
With all that being said, I know some passionate and very successful hunters that hunt everything "Under the Mid Night Sun" with a 300 WM and Remington Core-Lokts.
DJ Morrison
Well-Known Member
This past fall, i took a CZ550 in 375 H&H to Alaska, hunting just accross the straight from Kodiak. Shooting Barnes LRX 270gr. Shoots under an inch. plenty of penetration...bullets did their job!! Things i did to my CZ was to cerakote, new stock (B&C) and tune up the trigger. It really is not nice up there!! My outfitter and guides all use 375 H&H. Shots can be tight or out n the open. Look at the Sitka Kodiak Rain coat. Long enough to cover your hip waders so when it rains, the water does not go into your boots!! My shot ended up at 60 yards...
