338 lapua oal reloading

[MudRunner2005]

After you said this I looked in my manual on the first page of the lapua sections were it says all the detail of the bullet like the brass length, overall length(I guess just a common length) and after looking closely I seen were each bullet has its own overall length and surprisingly the bullet that I'm using it says to seat it at 3.55 oal wich is what I was seating it at anyways..also I found out if I seat the bullet longer that this like at 3.686 I found out that when I close the bolt on the gun it just seats the bullet farther down like at 3.55 inches soy question is should my bullet be able to slide that easily because I don't use great force to close the bolt down?

You really need to do a WHOLE lot more reading before you try to reload anything else or even pull the trigger on a reload. Especially if you don't know what SAAMI specs are.

That is not called a "common length"...That is THE saami spec length abided by all manufacturers as the "standard" for their factory chambers, and ammunition's overall length. That is the specifit set of specifications that all manufacturers have to stick to and abide by.

SAAMI - Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute

SAAMI | Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute

Moving along...If you're craming bullets into your chamber, then obviously there is a serious issue going on with those bullets....Did you load them in the brass backwards? If not, then lets move along....We need more info.

Also, I'm really not trying to be a jackass, I promise. But please can you try to use more punctuation, it's hard to tell where you stop and start.

 

[deerslayer1435]

You really need to do a WHOLE lot more reading before you try to reload anything else or even pull the trigger on a reload. Especially if you don't know what SAAMI specs are.

That is not called a "common length"...That is THE saami spec length abided by all manufacturers as the "standard" for their factory chambers, and ammunition's overall length. That is the specifit set of specifications that all manufacturers have to stick to and abide by.

SAAMI - Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute

SAAMI | Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute

Moving along...If you're craming bullets into your chamber, then obviously there is a serious issue going on with those bullets....Did you load them in the brass backwards? If not, then lets move along....We need more info.

Also, I'm really not trying to be a jackass, I promise. But please can you try to use more punctuation, it's hard to tell where you stop and start.

Sorry about the punctuation, I am using my phone and sometimes it's roughy to type on this little thing. as far as the reading, trust me I've done my fair share of it but have never had no one show me the ins and outs of things!

I did not load the brass backwards!
I am usin nosler partition 338 bullets. That measure .336 in diameter.
and the pills will not jam farter into the casing just by sliding the bolt! The bolt actually has to be pushed down( but it doesn't take a lot of force to do it). So if I put a bullet in the chamber that is seated at 3.568 and close the bolt all the way in the firing position and I extract the bullet it will than measure at 3.50

 

[deerslayer1435]

If it's a bushing die. the bushing fits inside the die body and is removable and you need to size your neck to your pill and order the appropriate sized bushings. Bushing dies are considerably more expensive than a fixed cavity die, like 2 times as much so, if you paid less than a hundred bucks for the die set (new) it will be fixed cavity.

If it is a bushing die and you haven't calculated the diameter of the pill versus the neck diameter of the case, you probably have the incorrect bushing installed.... but I don 't think you have a bushing die, I think it's fixed cavity.

The reason I ask about the expander ball has to do with it's relative position in the die itself. You want the ball to expand the inside of the neck BEFORE the neck reaches the upper cavity and the outside gets sized. one reason I always remove the decapping pins from all my dies and use a dedicated decapper die plus a dedicated decap die has a much stronger decap assembly so you rarely break pins. I use a Lyman BTW.

If, the expander ball is HIGH in the die cavity, it elongates the neck an excessive amount because it's working the neck brass against the inner diameter of the upper cavity. Consequently, your cases grow excessively, you trim the cases to over all length and the necks get progressively thinner, eventually craking. The metal goes somewhere. In this case you are trimming it off and the neck gets thinner and thinner.

As a rule (and I can get disputed on that on this forum), I myself don't ever use a neck sizer die. It stays in the box if it came as a set. I tend to buy dies one at a time and so I don't buy neck dies if I don't have to. Reason being, a neck die only resizes the neck and shoulder datum area. You want to resize the body as well (which goes against the grain on fireforming brass) but again thats how I do it.

The Lapua case is an abnormality in itself because of the length and diameter versus generated pressure upon ignition. To that end, you are right against the benchmark for annealing and annealing properly is a whole other subject.

Even with a fixed cavity die, it's possible to alter the neck tension by reducing the diameter of the expander ball with fine crocus cloth or even fine steel wool (depending on how much you want to reduce it and increase neck tension, however, after the first firing and subsequent resize, the neck is starting to workharden and won't be as ductile as it was when the case was virgin brass.

With any die, bushing or fixed cavity, you can 'bump' the shoulders back. You can get a dedicated bump die but all dies for bottleneck cases will bump shoulders back. oftentimes too much. The more you bump the shoulder back, the farther the case neck end, intrudes into the throat and that intrusion can cause hard ejection or no ejection at all in the case of a tight chamber.

Lots of things going on.

I am trying to upload pictures of my die I am having trouble figuring it out.
But the die decaping/neck sizing rod removes from the body like most other dies do. The dies cost like 70$ for the 3 die set

 

[varmintH8R]

Where are you located? I think you need a proverbial "friend in the business" locally. There are a lot of moving parts here and I think solving them over the interwebs is going to be tough sledding...

 

[deerslayer1435]

Where are you located? I think you need a proverbial "friend in the business" locally. There are a lot of moving parts here and I think solving them over the interwebs is going to be tough sledding...

the great state of kentucky! Lol

 

[SidecarFlip]

'bout halfway between Mudrunner and myself.

If the die sets were 70 bucks, you don't have bushing dies. Bushing dies start at 200 and go up.

You have fixed cavity with a moveable (threaded) expander ball/decap assembly.

I think you can rectify the neck tension issue right away or at least mitigate it for the most part.

Take your FL die apart and remove the decap pin/collet from the expander ball rod and throw it in your storage box. From now on, if you want to decap a spent case, use your Neck Size die with the decap rod screwed down so the decap rod is sticking out of the die body about 1/2". When you decap a case, just use the neck sizer to pop the primer and no more. Under no circumstances run the case up into your Neck Sizer die, never, never.

Back to the FL sizer die...

Tak a case, any case but preferrably a case with a loose case mouth.....

Take your FL sizer die and screw the expander ball down so it's about halfway up inside the die and lock it (look up inside with a flashlight to determine that its halfway down the die or better). Put your die in your press, raise the shellholder and ram to the top. Run the die down to the shellholder and THEN BACK IT OFF A HALF A TURN and lock it. Lube and resize your brass and report back. That should emininate the tension issue unless the case mouths are workhardened. Forget about camming over the ram and all that for now, we will get into that later...

One step at a time.

I really don't want to come to Kentucky, but Sully lives in Cincinatti and he knows his way around the reloading room. I might ask him....lightbulb He will do most anything for the right powder.....lol

 

[deerslayer1435]

Where are you located? I think you need a proverbial "friend in the business" locally. There are a lot of moving parts here and I think solving them over the interwebs is going to be tough sledding...

'bout halfway between Mudrunner and myself.

If the die sets were 70 bucks, you don't have bushing dies. Bushing dies start at 200 and go up.

You have fixed cavity with a moveable (threaded) expander ball/decap assembly.

I think you can rectify the neck tension issue right away or at least mitigate it for the most part.

Take your FL die apart and remove the decap pin/collet from the expander ball rod and throw it in your storage box. From now on, if you want to decap a spent case, use your Neck Size die with the decap rod screwed down so the decap rod is sticking out of the die body about 1/2". When you decap a case, just use the neck sizer to pop the primer and no more. Under no circumstances run the case up into your Neck Sizer die, never, never.

Back to the FL sizer die...

Tak a case, any case but preferrably a case with a loose case mouth.....

Take your FL sizer die and screw the expander ball down so it's about halfway up inside the die and lock it (look up inside with a flashlight to determine that its halfway down the die or better). Put your die in your press, raise the shellholder and ram to the top. Run the die down to the shellholder and THEN BACK IT OFF A HALF A TURN and lock it. Lube and resize your brass and report back. That should emininate the tension issue unless the case mouths are workhardened. Forget about camming over the ram and all that for now, we will get into that later...

One step at a time.

I really don't want to come to Kentucky, but Sully lives in Cincinatti and he knows his way around the reloading room. I might ask him....lightbulb He will do most anything for the right powder.....lol

ok thank you I will go try that right now... The only part I don't understand is when you say to use the neck sizing die to decap the primer, but you say to never run the case up into the neck sizing die! So how do you decap the brass if you don't run the brass all the way up to allow the decamping pin to decap the primer?

 

[SidecarFlip]

If you extend the decapper pin in the Neck Sizer die by running it down until it sticks out excessively, you'll pop the primer long before you intrude in the upper cavity of the die and begin the neck size operation.

When you use the neck sizer as a decap die you never advance the ram all the way to the top. You'll feel and hear the spent primer come out. Thats all the farther you go.

I don't use a neck sizer on a 338 case, never have. if you set the FL sizer die correctly, you won't overwork the brass in the first place which is what the neck die is attempting to avoid but thats mot germane at this point.

What is, is getting the expander ball down in the die with the decap pin removed. You must remove the pin and it's collet or the collet will bottom on the flash hole and deform it at the top of the ram stroke. Not a lot to play with space wise but it's doable.

What will occur is, the expander ball will size the ID of the neck and continue into the body of the case (as the ram is advanced upward and the case rises into the die body). The neck then rises up into the upper (neck cavity) and the reduced diameter sizes the outside diameter but without the expander ball attempting to hold the inner diameter which causes the brass to flow and the case to grow. I want you to set the die off the shell holder because I suspect you have already bumped the shoulders back too much as it is. Thats neither here nor there at this point. Lets just get the neck tension sorted out.

I also think you'll find the case sizes a whole lot easier. You aren't fighting the expander ball against the neck cavity with the case neck wall between the two. Of course assuming that the case mouths aren't work hardened. I'm not there to tell so thats a crap-shoot.

You still need to get a Cartridge Overall Length gage from Hornady or Pacific Gage to check the shoulder datum as it relates to your chamber. Bottleneck cases locate on the shoulder of the case so the datum measurement is critical to concentricity as well as smooth ejection, just like neck intrusion into the throat area.

Thats for later on. Right now, order the case gage and get the neck tension under control. You might want to look at a VLD reamer for the case mouths as well. They are cheap (RCBS has one for 12 bucks). They make bullet insertion, especially boat tails, much easier and the bullet don't get scratched by the case mouth as when you use a normal case mouth reamer.

 

[jkupper]

If you extend the decapper pin in the Neck Sizer die by running it down until it sticks out excessively, you'll pop the primer long before you intrude in the upper cavity of the die and begin the neck size operation.

When you use the neck sizer as a decap die you never advance the ram all the way to the top. You'll feel and hear the spent primer come out. Thats all the farther you go.

I don't use a neck sizer on a 338 case, never have. if you set the FL sizer die correctly, you won't overwork the brass in the first place which is what the neck die is attempting to avoid but thats mot germane at this point.

What is, is getting the expander ball down in the die with the decap pin removed. You must remove the pin and it's collet or the collet will bottom on the flash hole and deform it at the top of the ram stroke. Not a lot to play with space wise but it's doable.

What will occur is, the expander ball will size the ID of the neck and continue into the body of the case (as the ram is advanced upward and the case rises into the die body). The neck then rises up into the upper (neck cavity) and the reduced diameter sizes the outside diameter but without the expander ball attempting to hold the inner diameter which causes the brass to flow and the case to grow. I want you to set the die off the shell holder because I suspect you have already bumped the shoulders back too much as it is. Thats neither here nor there at this point. Lets just get the neck tension sorted out.

I also think you'll find the case sizes a whole lot easier. You aren't fighting the expander ball against the neck cavity with the case neck wall between the two. Of course assuming that the case mouths aren't work hardened. I'm not there to tell so thats a crap-shoot.

You still need to get a Cartridge Overall Length gage from Hornady or Pacific Gage to check the shoulder datum as it relates to your chamber. Bottleneck cases locate on the shoulder of the case so the datum measurement is critical to concentricity as well as smooth ejection, just like neck intrusion into the throat area.

Thats for later on. Right now, order the case gage and get the neck tension under control. You might want to look at a VLD reamer for the case mouths as well. They are cheap (RCBS has one for 12 bucks). They make bullet insertion, especially boat tails, much easier and the bullet don't get scratched by the case mouth as when you use a normal case mouth reamer.

After reading through this thread I have to agree with what Flip has told you. You should not be able to push the bullet into the case simply by closing your bolt. This means you have too little neck tension to adequately hold the bullet in the case mouth.

You should be able to rectify this doing what Flip has told you to do.

I'm imagining that you have been overworking your brass if you have only fired your cases twice, and have had to trim quite a bit of excess brass off of your cases. After 2 firings I usually have very little brass to trim off. I do it just to make sure that all of my cases are consistent.

I agree too that it would be easier to help if we could see what you have going on. If you know anyone in your area that is a competent loader I would have them come over and help you out.

 

[deerslayer1435]

yes my cases usual measured in at 2.720 or so after firing. And I tried what you guys mentioned last night real quick before I went to bed, trying to stay I wake I loaded one up as mentioned and it still done the same thing. But as you mentioned my cases may have been overworked already!

However I have 50 new rounds of lapua brass that should be here any day now and I. Will try to load one of those up like mentioned and see what happens. I also ordered the tools you suggested to work with!

Unfortunately I don't no anyone close by that is a experienced reloader! I no several other people who just got started the same time I did, so they would be of no help! But I do appreciate you guys for taking time out of your day to help!

 

[deerslayer1435]

here is my neck die(before I removed the pin and adjusted it)

 

[varmintH8R]

However I have 50 new rounds of lapua brass that should be here any day now and I. Will try to load one of those up like mentioned and see what happens. I also ordered the tools you suggested to work with!

When your new brass shows up do nothing to it (no brass prep, no sizing). Load a bullet like you have been and see if your OAL changes like it has with your sized brass.

I still highly recommend researching and getting yourself a system to measure the distance of loaded rounds to the lands of your rifling.

 

[deerslayer1435]

When your new brass shows up do nothing to it (no brass prep, no sizing). Load a bullet like you have been and see if your OAL changes like it has with your sized brass.

I still highly recommend researching and getting yourself a system to measure the distance of loaded rounds to the lands of your rifling.

Yes I have been reading up on this, and am going to do this....I also forgottomentioni picked up a hornady comparator to measure of of my ogive( after reading it is a lot more accurate!