338 edge, 300 rum, 7 rum

My vote goes for either the 338RUM or 338Edge. Whatever the 7mm or 300 can do, the 338's can do better except for trajectory. Who cares? LRF's solve that problem. With the up and coming 300 grain ACCUBOND, the big 338's are now in a whole new class. The Bergers are OK and the SMK are OK for hunting but the 300 grain ACCUBONDS will be stellar for hunting. The best you can do in an ACCUBOND for the 300 is 200 grains which sports a so-so BC. It is a good combo but the 338/300 grain AB will be a grand slam in all catagories. This and with better barrel life. The real downside here is recoil, which can be managed. You will also get higher velocities with the 338 versus the 7mm or 300 when using equal bullet weights and barrel lengths. Meaning, you can use a shorter barrel and still beat the 7's and 300's.
 
Lots of good advice already posted....I'll contribute my 2 cents...

The 300 grain NAB does hold great promise....but it will be interesting to see the final "real world" BC lives up to the .7 numbers in the 2012 catalog.

Instead of looking at drop, I would recommend you look at your whole "long range system" (i.e. your laser, your capabilities as a shooter, condition reader, and reloader, your observation/shooting optic(s)) and do an honest assessment on what your maximum range will be when actually shooting at game.

Having a 1200 yd capable rifle, will be misplaced in a system that all the other supporting items are limited to say 500-700 yds....or vice versa as well. Consideration of future "growth" should be done as well…..it's hard to have the whole package at once for sure. But just be sure to be honest with yourself on your whole system, and how much time/money/effort you are going to be able to apply to the science/art of your goals of Long Range Hunting.

Once you determine that range, using your favorite ballistic calculator (JBM ballistics, Gseven, etc) look at wind drift at a 7 mph wind value for that range comparing the respective calibers you are considering. When contemplating the MV potential of these calibers, be sure to consider the temperature sensitivity/tolerance of the class of powder. I.E. 7mm Benford Laser magnum might be able to push a 200 gr Wildcat bullet at 3400 fps, but with what powder?? If it's a temp sensitive one, you'll be evaluating that caliber's potential on a powder you'll likely never use with LRH.

Once you see the wind drift potential of the calibers you're evaluating, look at down range energy numbers of the respective rounds. Evaluate those numbers against the game you'll be shooting at those ranges, to ensure you'll have sufficient power to do what you want to do.

Barrel life advantage will sway to the larger calibers, but heavier bullets push the rifle a bit harder at the shooter as well.

Quality and toughness of available brass should be a consideration, as well as dies that make producing very concentric ammunition relatively easy (i.e. Redding Competition Seater, Type S bushing sizing dies), as straight uniform ammunition will be needed to see the full potential of the rifle.

Selection of high BC bullets in that caliber should be considered, and evaluated during your wind drift comparison of the different calibers. It would be disappointing to build that 7mm Benford Laser magnum, only to find out the high BC 200 gr bullet didn't shoot very well in your particular barrel, and you ended up having to use a much lower BC bullet to obtain the precision you were after....and ended up with less barrel life/exterior ballistic performance than you were after. Or when/if a run is made on reloading components occurs again, and your magic bullet is no longer available. One bullet guns are just that...one bullet guns. Something to consider.

Last but not least, it's just my humble opinion...but as a rough rule of thumb I like LR rifles to weight 1 to 1.2 lbs for every hundred yards of intended max range. I.E. a 1200 yard rifle capable of cold bore sub 1 MOA shots from a field shooting position rifle is probably going to end up weighing 12-14 lbs min after it's all said and done with barrel contour, optics, adj cheekpiece, brake, etc.

That weight rule of thumb, may help determine the caliber for you, as some don't like a 9 lb 338 mag, and some think a 14 lb 7mm mag isn't for them as well.

That weight rule is just my opinion though. I've read about lots of folks shooting 1 MOA at a mile with 8 lb rifles.....not at that level myself.

Good luck, and good shooting! gun)

Edit-There's a reason the 338 Lapua, Edge, and RUM are very popular....they are like the Chevy small block, or 5.9 Cummins....proven platforms, with recipes for success that have been proven time and time again.
 
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Auto,

That was an awesome post. Thanks for your point of view.

I like you are wondering how accurate the 300 ACCUBOND's BC is. That said, with the sheer sectional density and momentum a 300 grain pill will have, I feel it will lend itself to a stellar BC. At least for a real hunting bullet. .720 or lower, it will be better than anything else the major hunting bullet companies have to offer for a hunting bullet. The velocity to go with it may be another story....
 
Well, I just saw this and started to say about the same thing autorotate did. I am glad I read it first.

I will add a little though to the first thing you said which struck me and obviously comes from a lot of internet hype and not actual performance. The 338 Edge you called it, goes by a ton of names of which 338-300 RUM is correct, does not blow everything away. In fact it doesn't blow anything away. It is actually on the low end of the big 338's and is an introductory cartridge for guys just getting into long range and wanting to do it on a budget since it will fit on a standard magnum action and can be done easily and cheaply. That is why I spent so much time developing the cartridge out of my shop in 1998 when we got the specs on the 300 RUM to be released soon. It beat the 340 wby by about 125 fps on a standard magnum action which was impressive in 1998. I quit doing the cartridge in 2001 with the introduction of the 338 RUM which does the same thing in a factory cartridge.

Now, with all that said it doesn't mean that it is not a good cartridge because it is excellent and I still use the 338 RUM on occasion. Both the 338-300 and 338 RUM's are excellent in 27" length barrels because being on the low end of big 338's it doesn't burn as much powder and will work well with faster powders like H-1000 where the big 338's are better with super slow burners and barrel length. You actually will gain very little with a longer barrel, maybe 15-20 fps per inch. Not worth it because if you want a long barrel and more performance then get it in a cartridge that will blow the RUM's away. The 338-300 and 338 RUM's actually use the same accuracy loads of 91-93 grains of the old lot H-1000 with the 300 grain bullet.

Every year new products come out that add performance within the best capable range of various cartridges. I use my RUM's and lapuas to 1000 yard shooting because if I am shooting further I use a big 338 for better performance. Within that 1000 yard range these 338's have better performance with some of the new lighter high bc bullets. They provide the same moa in windage but shoot much flatter with far less recoil in light 1000 yard rifles like you are looking at building. A 300 grainer out of a 26" barrel will knock the living crap out of you even with a brake. With 27" barrel velocities compare the 300 grainer at 2750 fps vs say a 225 grain cutting edge bullet .64 bc at 3200 fps to 1000 yards. These are my actual velocities with my personal rifles in 26". Like autorotate said, shoot equipment designed to perform best overall considering all parameters at the range you primarily intend to shoot.

But like Autorotate said what you need to do is evaluate all the parameters of exactly what you want to do considering expense of all the support equipment to go serious long range. If you want to go serious long range then get a cartridge designed for the purpose. If you want to stay within the limitations of most affordable rangefinders and need a 1000 yard rifle then there are several like either of the 338 RUM's that will do a good job for you. I would suggest at least a 30 caliber or larger. To get good with it means quite a bit of shooting so I would recomend a 338 caliber for better barrel life and the 338 Lapua's and RUM's are excellent on barrels for the performance you get. You can go to the Lazzeroni, 338-378 wby, Excalibur, etc and get more performance within that range at the expense of dollars and barrel wear. Big 338's I know pretty well having worked quite a bit with most common cases out there since before or shortly after they were released. Necking the 378 wby case I was about ten years late on because I was a kid and couldn't afford an action to build it on.
 
I'll keep it short. Build an edge and don't look back (inherintly accurate and easy to load for).

My 28" brux w/300smk's is getting 2740fps w/90gr of h1000 (moderate load but very consistent).

My buddies 30" Hart is getting 2820fps with the same load.

Good luck!

RH
 
Roadhunter, your 338 edge at 2740 fps will kill anything you ever hunt with it as far as you can hit it. When you have a cartridge that capable there is no need to blow the primer pockets out for every fps you can get. Accuracy is the key like you said. Your brass and barrel will last a very long time loaded to those specs.
 
LTLR,

I agree there are more potent 338's or that some of the smaller ones are close. The awesome thing about the 338 Edge is that there is a very caliber specfic load that works over a WIDE variety of guns. 90-H1000 +/- is a sure bet. IMHO, if your 338 Edge wont shoot 90 grains of H1000 under the 300's, the gun is screwed up. I saved ALOT of load deveopment by taking everybody's advice and ran 88-92 grains. 89.2 under the 300's is my best load. SMK, Hybrid or Scenar, doesn't matter. Internet hype? Maybe. But the Edge works and works well. I can imagine lots of wasted powder and bullets with a 340 or 338-378 etc....while trying to find that perfect load. Run 89-91 in an Edge and you have an amazing performer.

Just my view/$.02

M
 
Amen, to the last two post.........

Mine was built by Jim at www.centershotrifles.com He's a great guy that builds sweet rifles!

IMG_0109-2.jpg
 
Michael, the 338 RUM is exactly the same with that same kind of performance. Those same loads in a 338 RUM and you are in business. The 340 wby and 338-378 wby are also extremely accurate and have particular loads that are just dead on that I have used since the 70's. Those charachteristics are not just privy to the 338-300 RUM. When I did all the testing with the 300 RUM case back in 1998-99 necking it from 7mm to 358 every caliber shot extremely well and was one of the least finicky cases to deal with I have ever fooled with in a cartridge that size. The RUM case is just a shooter in every caliber I necked it to.

But if the rifle is put together properly and the barrel is a shooter it is going to shoot no matter what cartridge you chamber it in. The 338-300 RUM will not be any more inherently accurate than any other cartridge if the rifle is done right. The 338 RUM is actually better than the 338-300 RUM from all the ones I tested. That is why the two original 338-300's I kept from that 98 time period have collected dust ever since the 338 RUM came out in 2001 and I began testing it. The 338 RUM tested out to be a better overall cartridge.
 
I was starting to lean pretty much towards the 300 ultra and shoot 210 vld or 230 hybrids. But after reading some of these posts, everyone seams to be saying go with the 338 edge. What i am looking to do is stay inside of 1000 on game and maybe every now and then play around a little bit farther on rocks. My rangefinder is capable out to 1200 yards. In the usmc we shoot our m40a5 7.62x51 with 175 smk out to a grand. On calm days it is possible to keep all shots in a 12" circle but once the wind picks up, that little 175 grainer chugging along at 2650 just doesn't do it. I am pretty confident in hitting a man size target out to a grand with a 308 with light wind. I own a custom build 308 right now but am looking for something to really buck the wind. Like i said i am mainly trying to stay inside of a grand on game and just don't know if the 338 really shines over the 300 ultra at that range.

I realize the bc is a lot higher on the 338 than on a 30 cal 175 smk so it will lose velocity slower but it kinda worries me that is will only be going about 2750 fps. I also realize it will not be nearly as effected by the wind but i do know the 308 drops like a rock. I know i shouldn't be comparing these two rounds and projectiles at all but i just don't like the sound of 2750 out of a 338 edge with a 300 grainer. That's what i was leaning more towards the 300 ultra.

I'm sorry to probably confuse you and not able to make up my mind, but any help would be appreciated.
 
Arrow-

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/338-edge-300-rum-7-rum-84748/index3.html#post602780

Go to one of the two websites listed in the 5th paragraph above. Pick the one that is easier for you to use. Post the results for 7 mph of wind drift and energy at the maximum range you'll shoot at game for a 3300 fps 180 Hybrid (7 RUM), 3200 fps 210 VLD Berger (300 RUM), a 2925 fps 230 OTM Berger(300 RUM), and a 2800 fps 300 gr OTM Berger (338 something). If you don't live where you hunt, use the enviro data for where you hunt (example, live on east coast, but want this to be a Colorado Elk rifle)

You really need to do this..... once you do, the folks that posted in this thread, that have the knowledge your after, who actually own and shoot the very calibers your speaking of at distance......will be even more willing to help you.

But you need to do this math yourself first :D Post it like this in a post in this thread....it'll spark some new conversation.

-----------------------------------------------------------Energy in ft/lbs / Drift in inches
3300 fps 180 Hybrid (7 RUM)=
3200 fps 210 VLD Berger (300 RUM)=
2925 fps 230 OTM Berger(300 RUM)=
2800 fps 300 gr OTM Berger (338 something)=
Even throw the 308/175 SMK in there for grins=

P.S.-Thanks for your service.
 
Or go to jbm ballistics on the internet and run the numbers for the range and altitude you plan on hunting. Run the numbers for the primary range you plan on hunting. No need running numbers beyond 1100-1200 yards unless you are building a rifle specifically to shoot beyond that distance most of the time. If most of your hunting is inside 1000 yards then find the best bullet/velocity combination to 1000 yards. The best combo to 1000 yards will not be the best for specifically shooting at 1500 yards but will work there. The best at 1500 yards will not have the best ballistics to 1000 yards. So you have got to make a choice.

Remember now to only consider cartridges that fit your plan of punching a lot of paper. The 7mm RUM I do not consider an option at any time for anything because the barrels are gone quickly. The 300 RUM is not a paper puncher but is a good long range hunting rifle to work up a good load then limited shooting after that. Then it will last quite some time. There are guys still shooting original 338-300 RUM's I did back in 1999 and have punched quite a bit of paper along with hunting. It and the 338 RUM barrels will last considerably longer than the others. To get the best ballistics you need to go to specialty bullets like the cutting edge however that gets very expensive doing a lot of paper punching. I am a hunter and the hunting rifles are only used for hunting so they make sense to me.

With the 300 RUM I use a 180 grain cutting edge bullet I am getting a .6 bc with at 3450-3470 fps. With the 338-300 and 338 RUM's I am shooting the 225 cutting edge .64 bc at 3200 fps. Run those on jbm against others you consider and see how they look. I shot the 225 accubond for quite a while out of the 338's with good results. I am just concerned the 300 grainers will beat you to death out of a short light rifle. CE also makes a 260 grain .76 bc and 252 grain .72 bc that would be a little better on recoil. Again these are very expensive for punching paper but are the best I have found for hunting.

Eric Stecker at Berger told me they are coming out with a lighter 338 bullet that may work well for you. But if you are looking at a case the size of the RUM I would not look under 338 caliber for punching a lot of paper. I think maybe you are trying to mix oil and water and they don't mix. A long range hunting cartridge and a long range target cartridge for punching a lot of paper are two different things. The only super long range hunting cartridges that can punch a lot of paper are going to be in 338 or larger caliber.
 
My 338 norma spits out a 300 berger at 2725. 10 mph w/90 degree,1000 yrd=39.6 '',E=2291. I take it speed goat hunting now, because of wind misses on trophy goats.My 257 wby has 2x+ drift and no E=330 at same:D my bare rifle is 7-2 oz, and dressed 8 3/4 braked. I shoot it one handed, and think it is a puppy to shoot. I shot a unbraked 340wby for 10 yrs. 400 rnds first spring, and angle shoots in mountains, got the weatherby tattoo x2 too prove it. I may be more recoil tolerant than some , as my wife refers to my head and rock in same sentence:D
 
edge.jpgthis is my 338 edge savage 110 left hand single shot acu triger set light about 2lbs mcgowen 32in 1:9 twist it has the standerd throught and shoots well i have only about 50rds out of it and the 250 acubonds shoot good so far at 3100 fps i shoot it without the brake it sems to shoot beter it is a cheep brake and i have herd that some will hert acuracy the recoil is not bad the gun is 18.6lbs as you see it i would like to sell it if anyony is intersted i live in lower mi and we cant hunt with rifles only shot guns up norty we can but you are lucky if you can even shoot 100 or 200 yds and i would like to build a gun for that i would be willing to sell the barrel alone also
 
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